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Old 06-15-2003, 01:28 AM   #31
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I was j\w, because if you made it wrap around closer to the TB it would allow less of the tube (and the air inside the tube) to be heated up by the temps underneath the hood, right?

salmanman: what is the max length of filter that can be attached to the tube?
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Old 06-15-2003, 02:00 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2000SilverBullet
Quote:
so basically your sayin' that unless you got a heat resistant finish and a heat shield the pipe and filter are bad for hp
I'm not saying it'* bad.
You will notice a big improvement when the engine bay is cold, like the first 5 or 10 minutes of driving, or in cold weather.
But on a warm summer day, or after the engine bay is up to temp, that heat will kill most of the benefits.

Some guys will improve things slightly by trying to route cool air towards the open cone with a hose that scoops the cool air in from under the front bumper, but it hardly has much effect compared to the heat radiated from those 600 degree exhaust headers.
wouldn't you also have the same problem with the intake manifold?
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Old 06-15-2003, 03:24 AM   #33
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Quote:
wouldn't you also have the same problem with the intake manifold?
Yes. and with the supercharger compressing the air, it also raises the heat a lot more. That'* why the ultimate is an intercooler between the supercharger and the intake plenum.
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Old 06-15-2003, 03:37 AM   #34
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Quote:
Um even without a true cold air intake the straight pipe and cone work wonders on our bonnevilles. Our bonnevilles have trouble with the restrictive air box and turbulent air. Doing this removes nearly all the previously stated trouble. It helps performance a lot.

And you dont need one bigger than 3". The bigger size is only useful if you are using ram air, and then its only useful at higher speeds. Also with a size larger than 3" you also have to worry about how the ends are smaller and the turbulent air this causes.
An open cone filter will give the engine more air, no doubt. But the air the engine will be getting is going to be 40-100 degrees warmer than the air that the stock airbox provides. On a supercharged engine heat is bad, very bad. Heat will cause knock, knock will cause knock retard, knock retard causes lost horsepower, and knock can badly damage your engine. Any gain you get from running an open cone is lost from the extra heat. I have seen tests done about the benifits of aftermarket air intakes. It was something like on average an open cone loses 2hp over stock air intake, and that was on N/A cars, imaging the difference on Forced induction cars.

Also, I am not the least bit worried about "turbulent air." On a Forced Induction car the air is going to be compressed anyways, so the turbulance isn't going to make a bit of difference.

Why don't I need a filter bigger than 3"? A bigger filter is going to catch more air. More air = more horsepower, more horsepower = me happy. We have a 9" cone on the GTP, and it catches a LOT of air, because it is basically sideways, so the air flows right into it. The filter is going to catch 9" of air instead of 3" of air. That means it will catch 3 times the air.

The GTP has an Insulated Thrasher CAI. It has a 9" K&N cone in it, and the duct that runs from the filter to the Throttle body is insulated. The intake air temp is never more than 6 degrees warmer than the air outside, and is usually 3 degrees or less. With an open cone the temps are 60-100 degrees warmer than outdoor temps, because it is basically sucking in the engine heat, and exhaust heat. That is 54-94 degrees warmer than my insulated CAI. That is significant and can mean a lot of horsepower. Dropping temps that much can mean running a smaller pulley. An intercooler drops air temps ~100 degrees. That is the temps after the supercharger heated up the air obviously so it makes more difference, but intercoolers make a BIG difference, usually allowing small enough pullies to gain 4 tenths in the 1/4 mile. With an open cone in the GTP there is no way we could run a 2.7" Pulley on an M90 on pump gas with the stock cam and stock heads with 0kr like we can now with our insulated CAI. Not many, if any people can run a 2.7 pulley on the stock cam and heads on pump gas. If you want to prove me wrong you can meet me at the track, and you can bring an open cone intake, and we will make runs with stock air intake, open cone, and our current air intake, and I will prove to you that the open cone will be the worst.
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Old 06-15-2003, 07:14 PM   #35
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So what do you suggest would be the best setup for a n/a?
An intake with a wrapped tube, and a heat shielded filter, or should we just wait and fabricate some type of interco0ler? Any ideas?
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Old 06-15-2003, 08:17 PM   #36
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lol I have been watching this intake information get thrown around for quite some time and first off the need for a smooth tube is not necessary if the air flow is increased and cooler. Really the car needs cooler air that is what NOS is about, CAI stands for COLD air intake. More oxygen more fuel more Power.

So more warm air has no effect or can even lead to loss. Silverbullet is right. More same temp air has a slight effect. Seriously cooler air means real gain. The roots sc beats the air around 3 times I recently sent a link created by an unbiased writer that describes the loss and heat associated with this air movement. SO as I have said from the beginning leave the Maf screen on and slap a big flexi pipe on with as few bends as possible and suck as much cool air as possible. You will want an insolated area for the air to remain cool.

For areas like California where it can get hot you will want a water injection if you are truly after cooler air in the summer heat.

A smooth pipe is nice and all but the lack of "turbulence" is still not that much of a power robber. I have been digging around and found some great sources for really cheap aluminum pipes and will pass it on in a little while but really if you want a cheap pipe get some flexible pipe and call it done. You donít need to coat a stainless steel the pipe with a ceramic coating.

I dare anyone willing to dyno to compare a smooth pipe and a flexible pipe. If done correctly the difference will be next to none.

I will eventually back up my rant but I have to finish all the other projects first.

Ty
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Old 06-16-2003, 12:20 AM   #37
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the big guys are starting to get in to the ring
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Old 06-16-2003, 12:59 AM   #38
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Maybe I came on too strong.

lol I just donít like to see people get all worked up and rip themselves off.

There is nothing wrong with a stainless tube or aluminum tube; I just figure the knowledge of the flexible tube is important to be aware of. Especially for the guy wanting to save coin.

Ty
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Old 06-16-2003, 09:09 PM   #39
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how much for flexible vs. steel?

You say i doesnt make a difference if you keep the MAF screen in?
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Old 06-16-2003, 10:06 PM   #40
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There are some companies charging $8.99 per foot for 3 " ID pipe. I can get this pipe cheaper but in general they can cost from $25-50.00 for 3' of pipe. I have military grade piping and other specialty product available that has a smooth interior wall. I also have an insulating system coming that can work with a zipper or Velcro. There are also many other related products we will offer. Basically $8.00 a foot. So $25-30.00 shipped. A pipe alone will cost around $60-70.00, or in this case around 100.00. If you buy a pipe made for a civic and cut it and paste. ..You can buy it for around 40.00.

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