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Old 10-20-2005, 07:40 PM   #11
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Thanks for passing along your personal experiences. I will be getting the off-the-shelf bolts for sure. I was figuring on getting whatever size had the same length of unthreaded shaft as the originals, but good suggestion for anyone else doing this. As for the diameter, I'll just get that set of bushings and washers, and find a bolt that fits those nicely.

I still have to go back to the junkyard and get my front sway. We didn't have the right tools and ran out of time trying to get the steering arms off. So the bar is completely unbolted and ready to come out... as soon as I can get those cotter pins out.
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Old 10-20-2005, 07:41 PM   #12
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If it is at the junkyard drop the back of the subframe and pull it out that way.
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Old 10-20-2005, 07:59 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corvettecrazy
If it is at the junkyard drop the back of the subframe and pull it out that way.
Yeah, we thought of that, but don't you need to support it somehow so that it doesn't just drop? Maybe I'll have to do that, if I can't get those pins out.

I'm not going to try another car after all of that ratcheting. Could they make the frame mounting bolts for the front bar any longer?!
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Old 10-20-2005, 08:04 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theJMFC
Quote:
Originally Posted by corvettecrazy
If it is at the junkyard drop the back of the subframe and pull it out that way.
Yeah, we thought of that, but don't you need to support it somehow so that it doesn't just drop? Maybe I'll have to do that, if I can't get those pins out.

I'm not going to try another car after all of that ratcheting. Could they make the frame mounting bolts for the front bar any longer?!
depending how far the car is off the ground, go take some random tires/wheels and leave enough room so that the frame only drops a couple of inches. Or have it drop so it is only a couple of inches from the ground.

To do this, loosen the front bolts (just loosen) then loosen the back or middle bolts. At somepoint you will want to remove the middle bolts and back bolts. (I dont know if it would be better to remove the back bolts first and then loosen the middle ones. I would probably loosen the front, remove the middle and then drop the back if I were doing it.)
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Old 10-20-2005, 08:08 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corvettecrazy
depending how far the car is off the ground, go take some random tires/wheels and leave enough room so that the frame only drops a couple of inches. Or have it drop so it is only a couple of inches from the ground.
Sounds like a good backup plan, at least. Thanks.
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Old 10-21-2005, 01:20 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corvettecrazy
I want you to look at this picture and tell me which bolt you would rather have holding your suspension together.



I would chose a high quality bolt.

Case closed.
Case Re-opened...

First you displayed two different bolts.
The new one is NC, (National coarse) while the rusted one is NF (National fine).
If both bolts were new the one on the right(rusty) is the stronger of the two.
See chart on second link, simply as it doesn't have the cadmium coating,
and it has the NF thread.

What do you define as a "high quality bolt" ?? ??

I did not say that an old rusted bolt was as good as a new bolt.
I said that" if it does the job, it does the job."
An old corroded bolt will not be capable of "DOING THE JOB" and
therefore, is excluded from the conversatuion.

There is no way to tell the quality of that rusted bolt.
It may have been a "factory spec" bolt when it was new.
The quality of the bolt has nothing to do with this topic.
We are simply speaking in terms of grade.
Grade is the tensil strength of a bolt, often determined by heat treatment, and/or chemical makeup, to fit a specific enviornment.
( i.e. high /low Carbon steel, silicon steel, and others. )

http://www.volvospeed.com/Repair/boltgrade.htm

This is not Quality.

Quality is.... the dimensions, thread pitch, and strengths, staying within specific limits when stressed,
which all bolts will do. grade 3 .... or grade 8.


http://www.fairburyfastener.com/information.htm
the following, excerpted from the above link.

"Q
What are the basic differences between an SAE Grade 5 bolt in accordance with SAE J429
and a high strength structural bolt?

A
While both bolts have a minimum tensile strength of 120,000 psi,
the differences include the following:

Marking
Controlled grip ranges min/max for each diameter/length combination of A325'*
A325'* only available in heavy hex configuration as defined in ASME B18.2.1
A325'* have specific quality assurance requirements
A325T is for lengths 4D threaded fully



Q
How is shear strength of fasteners determined? Why don't industry fastener standards include such values?


A
Common practice for steel fasteners is to assume shear strength will approximate 60% of minimum tensile strength. Published data in commercial (non-aerospace fields) does not offer much guidance on shear strengths for bolts, screws, or studs. The first reason is that the number of components loaded in shear is considerably less than for tension, compression, bending, or torsion. The primary reason, however, is the difficulty in obtaining accurate test data. Shear testing inherently involves a number of variables. Therefore, tests are less reproducible than testing for such properties as tensile or yield strength. Most shear testing has been by arbitrary procedures that provide empirical results. The greatest need for shear test data is in structures that are riveted, pinned, or bolted, and also where service stresses are actually in shear. Notable examples are found in the aerospace industry. (A recommended shear test method is given in ASTM B565.) "

Also see:
http://www.sizes.com/tools/bolts_SAEtork.htm

Now argue, why an Aircraft bolt is better....
Or how you can tell the difference between one or another.

Thank You...
Case, now closed.

I seldom go to a shootout unarmed....

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Old 10-21-2005, 01:56 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charliebonn
Case Re-opened...
I think that all corvettecrazy meant by that, was that any decent aftermarket bolt will work far better than the rusted thing that'* in there now. He may not have used the correct term, "grade", but the logic still applies.

I think you might have been wrong about the thread pitch on the rusty bolt in the picture. I don't think it'* national fine, but rather it is metric. I could be wrong, but it looks metric to me (not quite fine enough thread pitch to be national fine, and slightly smaller diameter), and that would make sense since most fasteners used on these cars are metric now. I may end up using metric, if no standard size is a good fit.
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Old 10-21-2005, 02:12 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theJMFC
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charliebonn
Case Re-opened...
I think that all corvettecrazy meant by that, was that any decent aftermarket bolt will work far better than the rusted thing that'* in there now. He may not have used the correct term, "grade", but the logic still applies.

I think you might have been wrong about the thread pitch on the rusty bolt in the picture. I don't think it'* national fine, but rather it is metric. I could be wrong, but it looks metric to me (not quite fine enough thread pitch to be national fine, and slightly smaller diameter), and that would make sense since most fasteners used on these cars are metric now. I may end up using metric, if no standard size is a good fit.
Ok ....I thought he was contradicting my previous statement....
Sorry "CC", if that'* the case...

Yes it could be metric. I guess...very hard to tell from a rusted photo ...

The other statements still hold true tho......
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Old 10-21-2005, 02:57 AM   #19
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I take no offense to any of this..i know I dont know everything about bolts and such. But compared to the GM replacements I would rather have the home depot bolt.
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Old 10-21-2005, 11:24 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charliebonn
Ok ....I thought he was contradicting my previous statement....
Sorry "CC", if that'* the case...

Yes it could be metric. I guess...very hard to tell from a rusted photo ...

The other statements still hold true tho......
Yeah, I think we're all on the same page here. Get a good grade of bolt from the store, in the appropriate size, etc.

Your bolt information and links are good, thanks.
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