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Performance, Brainstorming & Tuning Talk about modifications, or anything else associated with performance enhancements. Have a new idea for performance/reliability? Post it here. No idea is stupid! (please use Detailing and Appearance for cosmetic ideas)

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Old 06-23-2007, 04:14 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willwren
Quote:
Originally Posted by 91buickman
im getting rid of the air ride stuff anyway im trying to sell everything need to swap for about 120 plus shipping with new air struts, compressor ,wiring harness and ELC sensor only thing needed to buy is airline which is like 11bucks at autozone
if anybody wants this PM me
Ummmm....aren't you the one who said:

Quote:
youre right like i was saying earlier my car came equiped with th air ride crap to do it you need to wire it up including relay'* and sensors,airlines fittings ,honestly stick with what you have and upgrade to the monroe'* i could think of money spent better in other area'*
Obviously, you're not aware of the fact that FE2 suspension is designed with ELC as a critical component. In that sense, FE2 performance cannot be acheived without ELC rear struts.

You give advice to ditch it, then you claim you're replacing all yours?

Or maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're trying to say? Can you use proper english, punctuation and grammar?

For future reference, anyone trying to FE2 swap an FE1 car will not achieve the ride, balance, and handling without ELC. It'* part of the package, and the ELC response is used in the spring and swaybar calculations.
I dont know how you got that info from what i was saying with or without periods or commas so let me explain-
Im ditching the system,which i * why i told a non ELC equipped member to keep what he has. I want to convert to a non ELC system in my quest to find something better for the rear. I want it stiffer and i know ELC wont provide a performance oriented ride. Thats why im selling what i have. I have a couple of tricks up my sleeve for the rear setup but all in good time.
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Old 06-23-2007, 07:54 AM   #42
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Wren, what do I need for the "full ELC system" what parts are involved and how would I install them? I do not want to leave a valve sitting around, I'd want the compressor or whatever drives it and all other parts necessary. I know I can just buy the struts, but what else do I need?
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Old 06-23-2007, 09:31 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChilinMichael
Wren, what do I need for the "full ELC system" what parts are involved and how would I install them? I do not want to leave a valve sitting around, I'd want the compressor or whatever drives it and all other parts necessary. I know I can just buy the struts, but what else do I need?
ok ifinally chiming in here....there has been some questionable material posted by a few in this thread...

if you do FE2...YOU MUST DO AIR ASSIST in the back. its an Intergral part of the suspension....DO NOT leave it out

also as the only person to install Factory ELC into a car that didnt have it....its not easy....you honestly need a parts car to get the entire harness out of the vehicle cutting and splicing whire will get you no where.....i had an entire parts car and it made its a piece of cake....with out a entire harness and other things....dont even bother....i would recommend the manual Fill of the struts as Badnit and Jrs3800 have done

here is my thread to give you an idea what it takes
http://www.bonnevilleclub.com/forum/...38&highlight=A
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Old 06-23-2007, 10:25 AM   #44
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91Buickman, your statement about not being able to achieve a performance ride with ELC is TOTALLY off base.

Those that have driven my 93 know how much you can really do with ELC, and very little else invested in your suspension. I have perhaps the best handling car on this Forum, and certainly the best handling at all WCBF meets so far. The vast numbers of members that have driven mine will never argue that point.

If you think the ELC is holding you back in handling performance, you're not tackling your suspension issues correctly.
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Old 06-23-2007, 01:27 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChilinMichael
Wren, what do I need for the "full ELC system" what parts are involved and how would I install them? I do not want to leave a valve sitting around, I'd want the compressor or whatever drives it and all other parts necessary. I know I can just buy the struts, but what else do I need?
Like i said i have everything you need to convert

now as for Willren thats a statment that should be backed up with some handling numbers you have me curious as to what youre pulling in utilizing factory h-body parts, as for me im running custom bracing for the rear my conrtol arms have custom poly urethane bushings, poly endlinks and poly tie rod ends, poly bushings in the rear too. im also on low profile 255/45/ZR tires and 235/45'* out back. IMy suspension is well maintained as well willren but like i said i just dont believe in factory handling being superior to aftermarket or possibly retrofitting.
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Old 06-23-2007, 02:15 PM   #46
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Your low profile tires are going the wrong direction for cornering, buickman. You need the sidwall height/aspect ratio to allow the wall to flex and maintain the contatct patch with the road.

Proper performance handling can easily be achieved with proper strut selection, and a little creativity. I run full-coil rubber spring spacers in the rear which is my only aftermarket 'addition' to the factory suspension. Struts and bushings are replaced with better-than-oem components. Monroe Reflex ELC replacement struts were a big key to my success, as well as starting out with the largest FE2 springs we've measured on this Forum to date.

If you want proper cornering and handling, keep the stock tire aspect ratio and 16" wheels (or 17'* for the 2000 and newer). Engineers who are alot smarter than you and I calculated that aspect ratio into our suspension setups. As you 'firm up' the handling, that aspect ratio becomes even more critical.

Read this topic:
http://www.bonnevilleclub.com/forum/...ic.php?t=78912

Chassis/suspension dynamics are very complicated, and each change you make affects other aspects of the dynamics. It'* an act/react situation until you achieve the balance you want. But you'll never get there if one of your changes goes the wrong direction and you try to correct for it by changing something else.
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Old 06-23-2007, 02:26 PM   #47
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Low profile tires are high on performance and appearance:
They’re one of the hottest trends in the automotive industry. Low profile tires are being fit on everything from sports coupes to family sedans, and tire makers are planning to introduce even more sizes this year. With choices mounting, the question still remains: Are they right for you?
Inspired by motor sports, low profile tires are high on two things—performance and appearance. Lower deck heights both give the tires a racecar look, and also make them better at handling corners. Fewer grooves and smaller void areas between the treads are what make them effective as performance tires. Combined, these features deliver:
Greater lateral stability
Improved tread wear
Reduced weight
Lower cost (generally)
On the flip side, these same features can make low profiles less than ideal when handling in the snow. Additionally, they:
Rotate faster than standard tires—which can negatively impact fuel economy if the drive train isn’t modified to account for the RPM change.
Are more susceptible to sidewall damage, and take a major beating when driving over potholes.
Before switching to low profiles, check your owner’* manual to find out:
Your vehicle’* recommended tire size.
The recommended tire inflation pressure.
The maximum weight your car’* axle systems are designed to carry.
The tire load capacity and handling characteristics of your vehicle.
These factors all influence the type of tire that should be on your car. A final note: If you do opt for low profiles, remember not to mix with standard tires. Change out all four tires or none at all. In this section
Timing Is Everything with Timing Belts
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Old 06-23-2007, 02:47 PM   #48
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Nice cut and paste, but that'* a sales pitch.

I wouldn't normally regard Castrol as an expert in handling performance, but I'll humor you with the rest of the article you left out:
Quote:
On the flip side, these same features can make low profiles less than ideal when handling in the snow. Additionally, they:
Rotate faster than standard tires—which can negatively impact fuel economy if the drive train isn’t modified to account for the RPM change.
Are more susceptible to sidewall damage, and take a major beating when driving over potholes.
Before switching to low profiles, check your owner’* manual to find out:
Your vehicle’* recommended tire size.
The recommended tire inflation pressure.
The maximum weight your car’* axle systems are designed to carry.
The tire load capacity and handling characteristics of your vehicle.
These factors all influence the type of tire that should be on your car. A final note: If you do opt for low profiles, remember not to mix with standard tires. Change out all four tires or none at all.
Look at professional auto racing. NASCAR in particular. They have high aspect ratio tires for a reason. Grip. Sidewall flex allows the tire to keep the contact patch on the track/road surface.

You can go your road, and suggest what you want of course, but I think there'* a few here besides myself who will point out the obvious dynamics from personal experience and research, rather than 'common trends' or sales pitches.

I think we need to steer yet another topic back in the right direction. This topic is about suspension. Apologies to the topic author for straying.
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Old 06-23-2007, 11:57 PM   #49
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Apology accepted

Wren, again I have to call upon you for your advice here,

is 91buickmans setup compatible with mine? Is it everything I need? What am I actually doing to install this, a brief summary if you could... I want to install full ELC
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Old 06-24-2007, 12:17 AM   #50
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Compatible? Sure. Practical? No.

Here'* why:

1. His is the oldest ELC year. His compontents are worn and aged.
2. It'* a very detailed and meticulous time consuming task.
3. With manual control like my fantabulous co-Admin did, you have direct and very specific control over the system.

You can save yourself time and money, and gain the advantage of balancing the suspension for your own tastes. It'* the rear that needs the most help on FE2 anyway, which is why they did ELC in the first place. The Zilla'* legendary handling came from careful attention to the rear. Not the front.
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