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Old 10-11-2004, 06:09 PM   #11
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Just stick with Dino oil i guess, since i'm running synthetic longer then 3k i use a long filter.

There is one fram that'* ok, maybe the double guard, i do not know though.
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Old 10-11-2004, 07:03 PM   #12
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Thats what I used was the Double Guard. I'll find out in the next couple days how the 10w40 oil and the double gaurd are...
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Old 10-11-2004, 09:27 PM   #13
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Default Synthetic Oil

To those dissing synthetic oil:
I have used synthetic for at least 25 years with great success and NO PROBLEMS brought about by using synthetic.
I currently use Mobil 1 10W-30 and AC filter with my SSEi. I run this iI have used Castrol Syntec with much success in the past on a couple of stout 5.0 Mustangs.
I have used synthetic oil for almost 20 years on EVERYTHING- my car, my truck, my wife'* car, even my lawn mower! The 14 year old mower engine has worn out 2 mower decks and still starts on the first pull EVERY time!
I have used synthetic on new vehicles (after break-in), vehicles with over 200000 miles, and vehicles with milage in between the two above extremes.
These old and new vehicles include most of the GM product line as well as a few Fords.
I have and will use synthetic with ANY device running a 4 stroke engine.
My 15-year-old+ lawn mower engine has worn out 2 mower decks and still starts on the first pull EVERY time! All with synthetic.
With synthetic, my only problem has been engines lasting longer than the rest of the car....
I have personally torn down and helpd tear down many engines of all kinds since the early 1970'*.
Take it from this old fart: Unless your car leaks oil badly, YOU CAN'T GO WRONG WITH SYNTHETIC OIL!
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Old 10-11-2004, 09:49 PM   #14
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I knew this would cause a ... discussion. I respect your experience. I was just relating my experience. I ran synthetic in my 12 sec 5.0 all the time. It did rev a little faster with it.

I'm not saying its bad stuff. I'm saying it doesn't burn in the cylinders like dino oil does.
Heck, put a torch to it. See what happens. Try it in a rotary engine .... see what happens.
ALso, why are the oil rings on the Vettes different ? Why does GM recommend Dino oil for the 3800 and not the vettes ?

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Old 10-11-2004, 09:57 PM   #15
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My bonnie got mobil one for the first 100k, and really crappy dino juice from then till now. My engine runs pretty good.. I just have other problems, like brakes, and transmission. And ejecto, I totally agree with you, there is no replacement for synthetic. Everyone will have their opinion, but to me, there is nothing like synthetic oil. If I didn't put less than 200 miles on my car every oil change, I'd have mobil one sitting in my oil pan right now. If you can't afford mobil one, you can get Castrol or Penzoil synthetic oil, which is not as good, but better than dino juice. Just my opinion...


-justin
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Old 10-11-2004, 10:19 PM   #16
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I run Mobil Semi Synthetic for high mileage (over 75,000 miles) and a Wix Premium filter (forget the Wix model). Excellent oil pressure. And the Wix filter was only $6 at Auto Value.
DO NOT USE FRAM -PERIOD!!!! I've run them for a while, and whenever I switched to a filter like a Mobil 1 or a AC/Delco I noticed I had way better pressure than with the FRAM.
When I unretired Ol Blue this past August I had about 40 psi of oil pressure (on a Mobil 1filter -I believe) and that was with 4k and 8 months old 10W30 Mobil Semi Synthetic oil for high mileage engines. Then I put 10W30Mobil Semi Synthetic oil for high mileage engines, again, and this time with a Fram DG. My cold oil pressure was only 35-40'ish psi, and when warm it would drop to 20-25 psi.

I highly recommend against using Fram oil filters. Find a place that sells Wix oil filters (NAPA filters are Wix filters rebadged with NAPA'* name). Also, you'll be saving money with the Wix filters as the Premium Wix is only around $6-6.50, and a FRAM DG is around $7.50-$8.
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Old 10-11-2004, 10:33 PM   #17
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On the fram filter subject ... I've saw at least 4 that have imploded from oil pressure.
Again, I'm not saying they are bad. I'm saying I've saw 4 of them with the paper imploded.
Keep in mind guys, I'm speaking from a repair shop point of view.
99,999 out of 100,000 may work great. Just like the Synthetic thing.
I'm speaking from a repair shop point of view. The lawn mower may run great on the stuff. I dunno. I'm just relating to what I have seen.
I've NEVER saw an AC Delco filter implode .... in 25 years. I've NEVER saw
a 4 stroke gas motor with clogged oil rings that used Dino oil.
I'm not dissing anything. I'm telling you what I've seen.


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Old 10-11-2004, 11:55 PM   #18
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I do not for one minute believe your claims that the 'vette uses different oil rings in it'* 'synthetic' variation. The bottom end of the LS1 is the same no matter if it'* in a Camaro, Trans Am, Corvette or whatever else it'* put in. The Camaro'* and Trans Am'* never had the factory fill of synthetics, only the 'vettes. Until you show definitive proof of there being a different oil ring for the LS1 in the 'vettes, I call B.*.!

BTW, jlathem, what exactly is it that you do for a living. Originally you said that you saw X number of engines in your Dad'* shop that exclusively (so you say) used Synthetic oil and had oil sludge buildup on the oil rings. Now you claim that you have 25 years of experience with sludged up oil rings solely being blamed on synthetic oils.

Now onto the sole reason why Synthetic has gotten a bad rap... It'* not that Mobil 1 (or other synthetics) "cause" oil leaks, they can just aggrivate the ones that already exist.

The problems (and myths) came about when people started putting synthetics in older motors that were probably run on older, less advanced dino oils. The dino oils turned acidic sooner than synthetics and that caused seals to harden. They also sludged up more. Many times, the sludge buildup would be the only thing keeping the seal from leaking.

Then throw in a high tech synthetic, with lots of detergants and additive packages, as well as having better flow properties, and it dissolved the sludge from the seals and "opened up" leaks.

Older motors also had a tendancy to sludge simply because of the design, and inefficent cylinder head cooling, etc. And like I mentioned, older oils were not as good as modern oils. Seal technology was not as good either.

And so the myth began that "synthetics cause oil leaks", when in reality it was the furthest from the truth. If anything, synthetic oils will extend seal life beyond what a conventional oil will.

Now onto the synthetic doesn't burn issue... Stating that synthetic oil will not burn is completely FALSE! Synthetic oils (in most cases) simply have a higher flash point than conventional oils. And I'm sorry, but Synthetic oils just don't cause sludge. If an engine that you have seen torn down has had sludged up oil rings, then the owner DID NOT run synthetic motor oil. I ran a '94 Dodge Intrepid with a SOHC 3.5L v6 for 5 years which had 94,000 miles on it when purchased and put 77,000 miles on it. After doing some repairs, I switched it over to Mobil 1 synthetic. While doing the repairs to get it back in working order I pulled the valve covers to inspect underneith. The entire top of the head that had ever touched oil was almost black. I replaced the valve cover gaskets and put it back together. After just 10,000 miles, I had another opportunity to pull the valve covers (changing the intake gaskets). To my surprise, the entire top of the head that completely black, was sparkling raw aluminum.

Just thought I'd share that experience. You nor anyone else can ever convince me that synthetic is bad in ANY way.
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Old 10-12-2004, 12:31 AM   #19
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I'm an Electrical engineer by trade. I worked in my Dads repair shop ( Americas Truck and 4wd center ) since I was 13.
I broke stuff and was a shop gopher since about age 5. I've hung out at dirt tracks
and Hi Po shops since I was alive. All the time getting in the way.

Im 39 now. My buddy'* Dad was ( retired ) an engineer for GM'* engine division and he owns RPM automotive here in Georgia. They swap out and disassemble about 3 or 4 engines a week. Everyone has their opinion. You make good points about past folks using Synthetic.All the engines I saw that had the ring issues were early American V-8'* with high compression. I didn't mean to upset anyone. I'm not here to make enemys. I just like talking about cars.
I was just giving my 2 cents.
Besides .. free advice is worth what you pay for it right ?
As for the Vette motors ...I'm talking about the ZR-1 engine. The rings and pistons are different. Better yet .... take one apart or check part numbers. I could be wrong.
Like I said ... put a torch to the synthetic. Watch what happens. Don't take my word for it .Try it. Also ... what type of oil do they run in NASCAR, Tampa series Dirt track, and Top Fuelers for that matter ? Do any racing bodies run synthetic ? I dunno.
Synthetic DOES have a stronger film strength. I'm saying it doesn't burn right.
Again, I'm reasonably new here. I don't want upset anyone. I respect your opinion.


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Old 10-12-2004, 01:16 AM   #20
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Also, Swartlkk,

heres a link that backs up YOUR opinion. They say your right. So, your not alone
in your opinion. I've found more links FOR than against on synthetics.

I'm in the minority. Again, I was just stating what I've seen.
Truce ..

http://www.whatprice.co.uk/car/synthetic-oil.html

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