New times after Jet Stage 2 chip - Page 3 - GM Forum - Buick, Cadillac, Chev, Olds, GMC & Pontiac chat


Performance, Brainstorming & Tuning Talk about modifications, or anything else associated with performance enhancements. Have a new idea for performance/reliability? Post it here. No idea is stupid! (please use Detailing and Appearance for cosmetic ideas)

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Old 11-20-2002, 09:10 PM   #21
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Ok, the rest of the disclaimer.....My times and speeds don't jibe perfectly, cuz I didn't get my hands on the G-tech til AFTER the chip. The pre-chip times were by a co-pilot sitting in the seat next to me, a 1/4 mile 'strip' figured by GPS, and his and my own reaction times figured in. When he said "1/4 mile!" and stopped the stopwatch, I looked at the hud. It was pretty hokey, but gave us a GENERAL idea. If you notice, my new tires slightly improved my times, as well, from a greatly improved launch....but the cold is still killing me, and I haven't had the heart to burn the new tires off to heat 'em up yet! For a 93, I'm pretty pleased. I'm not gonna impress anyone at the track (if we had one that wasn't dirt), but I will spook a few people on the street.
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Old 11-20-2002, 09:22 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willwren
Ok, the rest of the disclaimer.....My times and speeds don't jibe perfectly, cuz I didn't get my hands on the G-tech til AFTER the chip. The pre-chip times were by a co-pilot sitting in the seat next to me, a 1/4 mile 'strip' figured by GPS, and his and my own reaction times figured in. When he said "1/4 mile!" and stopped the stopwatch, I looked at the hud. It was pretty hokey, but gave us a GENERAL idea. If you notice, my new tires slightly improved my times, as well, from a greatly improved launch....but the cold is still killing me, and I haven't had the heart to burn the new tires off to heat 'em up yet! For a 93, I'm pretty pleased. I'm not gonna impress anyone at the track (if we had one that wasn't dirt), but I will spook a few people on the street.
Oh, baloney! 15.1 at the track is *very* respectable, especially for a heavy car like a Bonney! Suring a typical street tire night, you would win probably 70% of the races.

Some other typical times that I'll see out of cars:

18s - the worst ricers, kids that borrowed Dad'* Caddy to go race, stock automatic base focus/accord/etc.

17s - the slower ricers, stock automatic Neons, etc.

16s - majority of ricers, 5 speed Neons, stock turbo 1 Dodges, various V6 GM stuff, V8 pick up trucks, etc.

15s - stockish turbo intercooled 4s, most V8 mustangs, older V8 camaros, etc.

14s - DSM AWD turbo cars, 16V turbo intercooled 4s, the quicker mustangs, newer V8 camaros, etc., old V8 muscle

13s - DSM AWD turbo cars, the quicker 16V turbo intercooled 4s, newer corvettes, the well modded mustangs, etc., old V8 muscle

12s - Vipers, very well modded turbo Supras freakishly fast FWD cars, blown V8 muscle, etc.

11s - Stuff that is wicked fast, and extremely well modded!

---

So, look, you're bordering on 14s. That'* pretty good company, wouldn't you say?

Dan
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Old 11-20-2002, 09:27 PM   #23
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Ok, Dan. I'm gonna pin you here. You're driving a Series 1 L67, too.

Have you had it on the track yet? I'd like to know how I compare.....I'm faster than
a STOCK Series 2 L67, but with a couple mods, they easily get the times I worked pretty hard for. My car is not a disappointment to me by any means, since it is my primary grocery-getter and kid taxi. I'm already where I'd hoped to be, but may see some more improvement when I finish up next spring. The pulley is the next and last major mod.
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Old 11-20-2002, 09:31 PM   #24
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Dan is sucking up for something. I bet he wants my water injection. Kitted up and shipped to his door.

I'll take 'quick', but when it comes to fast, Turtle and Complinitor have earned that label.....and they're both NA.

When it comes to FREAKING BLISTERING, I think we know who'* got THAT label. And a really cool license plate that sez "BAD SSEi"
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Old 11-20-2002, 09:53 PM   #25
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[quote="willwren"]Ok, Dan. I'm gonna pin you here. You're driving a Series 1 L67, too.

Have you had it on the track yet?
-----------
I haven't - if Cecil wasn't rained out, I was probably going to run it there (Spirit had to go away for the winter, it'* snowy round here!).

-------------

I'd like to know how I compare.....I'm faster than
a STOCK Series 2 L67, but with a couple mods, they easily get the times I worked pretty hard for.
------------

After I saved mine and have had a little bit of time to get it back up to par, I can confidently say it'* a perfectly running bone stock 95 series 1. Estimating the best I can from the racing that I've done, I'd say that with a good launch (like a 2.3) it is probably good to about 15.6 or so, and probably 88 mph, give or take 1. It'* quick for a big car!

Where are you? Well, if you're getting 91mph (I'm suspecting that'd be what you'd see at the track), with the weight of the car being what it is, that probably means you've added 20 horsepower or so at the wheels, or maybe 30 more at the flywheel than what I've got.

There'* alot of assumptions going on here! But this is bench racing, is it not

-------------

My car is not a disappointment to me by any means, since it is my primary grocery-getter and kid taxi. I'm already where I'd hoped to be, but may see some more improvement when I finish up next spring. The pulley is the next and last major mod.
------------

Here here on the grocery getter and the kid hauler!

You should see *alot* more difference by adding boost, i.e. the other pulley. A trick that I can use on the turbo cars is this: The power your engine is going to make is directly proportional to the absolute pressure in the intake manifold. So, if you're to take the stock figure of 225hp and 7psi, the overall power per psi would be 225/(7+14.7) = about 10.4 horsepower per psi (if you mod the engine and raise the output for the same boost level, this number would be higher). So for every psi of boost you add, you will add 10.4 horsepower (flywheel). But realize that this number is going to be less and less because you are not intercooled, and because of the compressor efficiency of that damn thing. You'll get some back from the water injection...

The 95 Factory service manual actually states that the supercharger can operate from 7-11psi. This tells me that there'* maybe 40-45 more horsepower to be had should I put the boost at, say, 12psi, and use the water injection. I would think that should take me from 88mph to 93-94mph in the 1/4 mile, i.e. would read 95-96mph on the G-tech.

So how do you compare? At the track now, you'd do well, and would have a number of curious people wondering why your car is as fast as it is. After the pulley, you'll have some people that are *very* curious and excited to find out what you've done.

You won't win them all, but you'll be able to beat everyone you need to (i.e. all but the quickest ricers).

Find a track! There'* got to be one by you. You'll be addicted in no time!

Dan
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Old 11-20-2002, 10:01 PM   #26
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Glad to see your 10hp/lb of boost ratio. I've seen that before, and was making my assumptions based on that. My first H2O injection prototype gained me 2 pounds of boost, so I have high hopes. I'm more concerned with heat damage, though, which is why I want to get the water running right first, then the pulley. I'm also going to duct cooling air over the Eaton. My low miles and cherry condition are making me timid with my mods.

I'm afraid of going to the track. The last thing I need is another addiction, or to make one worse!
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Old 11-20-2002, 10:03 PM   #27
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[quote="willwren"]Dan is sucking up for something. I bet he wants my water injection. Kitted up and shipped to his door.

-----------

Geez, and I thought you'd be mad when I said I was surprised you didn't see more mph!

I've actually got my own idea for water injection, but hey, I *never* turn down free stuff! If you ask me, you're forgetting about the very best pressure source there for pushing the water in ------ BOOST! The higher the boost, the more water gets pushed in!

Actually, that'* not my own idea, that is from a guy who raided a junkyard, snagged 2 turbos off of buses and hack-welded them onto his 440 charger I think it way. It'* how he added fuel - used boost pressure to pressurize a bottle, with alchohol, and a little jet to squirt it into his carb. For a quiet car, running 10s at 130+, I thought it was a neat trick!

--------------

I'll take 'quick', but when it comes to fast, Turtle and Complinitor have earned that label.....and they're both NA.

When it comes to FREAKING BLISTERING, I think we know who'* got THAT label. And a really cool license plate that sez "BAD SSEi"
---------------

I agree, 17s is OK, 16s is a little peppy, 15s is quick. 14s is fast, 13s is really fast, 12s is nuts!

Dan
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Old 11-20-2002, 10:10 PM   #28
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You're forgetting another advantage our cars have for delivering water. We have a compressor perfectly suited for pressurizing a water tank. Check out my web page and you'll see the control switches and status LED'* on my console. I'm just on hold right now on fine tuning the system until things warm up a bit.

My tank is built, control and safety circuits wired, and control rack with relay, shutoff valve, filter, and pressure switch installed. I just need a better shutoff valve (that doesn't freaking leak) and I'm in business. We should talk more about this. We might be able to improve or combine ideas here.
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Old 11-20-2002, 10:10 PM   #29
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[quote="willwren"]Glad to see your 10hp/lb of boost ratio. I've seen that before, and was making my assumptions based on that. My first H2O injection prototype gained me 2 pounds of boost, so I have high hopes.
--------

OK, well that'* probably where 20 of your horsepower came from. Another 10 came from somewhere - the CAI will help a little, but I don't think 10 hp worth. I'm assuming you also did some exhaust work?

-----------

I'm more concerned with heat damage, though, which is why I want to get the water running right first, then the pulley. I'm also going to duct cooling air over the Eaton. My low miles and cherry condition are making me timid with my mods.

-----------

Yeah, the hotter the charge, the more prone to detonation you are, which is what cracks pistons. I doubt running cold air over the SC is going to make a difference, most of the heat added is adiabatic (ish), and the rest is from compressor efficiency, very little is going to be from conduction.

But, this brings up a question ... are the pistons in these things cast or forged?

-----------

I'm afraid of going to the track. The last thing I need is another addiction, or to make one worse!
--------

You know, when I first started racing, my wife was all worried and nervous about me going, worried about my safety. Until she realized that when I go racing, it means I'm out of her hair for an entire night. Then she was basically shoving me out the door!

Once I broke the car on my first pass (a Daytona, at NED), and kanived AAA into towing it home for me from the track. What was the wife doing? In her nightgown, eating ice cream right out of the box, with an old black and white classic romantic movie on TV, and on the phone with her mother. THEN I understood!

Dan
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Old 11-20-2002, 10:13 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willwren
You're forgetting another advantage our cars have for delivering water. We have a compressor perfectly suited for pressurizing a water tank. Check out my web page and you'll see the control switches and status LED'* on my console. I'm just on hold right now on fine tuning the system until things warm up a bit.

My tank is built, control and safety circuits wired, and control rack with relay, shutoff valve, filter, and pressure switch installed. I just need a better shutoff valve (that doesn't freaking leak) and I'm in business. We should talk more about this. We might be able to improve or combine ideas here.
And why does it leak? Because it'* always pressurized. If you modified your setup to have it'* pressure source right out of the intake manifold, then it isn't pressurized whenever you're in vacuum driving. No leak!

Also, you get MORE water the higher the boost is.
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