L36: Valvetrain upgrades needed for 1-2 shift point of 6250? - Page 2 - GM Forum - Buick, Cadillac, Chev, Olds, GMC & Pontiac chat


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Old 04-11-2007, 12:38 PM   #11
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Thanks again for all the help, guys.

Quote:
Originally Posted by big_news_1
Just make sure you put a new tensioner on when you install them if your tensioner is old and tired already.
If I was willing to go as far as opening the front cover, I'd likely go cam instead of rockers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by big_news_1
I would defintely go for the reusable rocker arm bolts as Jason suggested. You never know when you might be back in there, and the cost difference is negligible. I'm glad I bought them, as I've had various reasons for loosening and retorquing my rockers over the last couple years.
Agreed. It'* possible I'll someday swap all these mods from the 1998 car to the 2004 car (or, heaven forbid, replace a broken spring), so might as well go reuseable...I do seem to recall reading somewhere that the CompCams brand reuseable bolts had problems, anyone know anything about that?

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Valve float is generally described as "hitting a wall" at a certain RPM. It'* like the engine is pulling nice and hard, then falls flat on its face up in the top of the powerband. I wouldn't think it would happen on a stock L36 valvetrain (even if worn), but I couldn't say for sure.
That'* what I thought. I am constantly reading about the 3800'* "running out of breath" at the tops of the gears on various forums; and I believe mine does, too. Poking around (the zzp site, IIRC), I've read that valve float can apparently begin as low as 3200 rpm on worn stock valvetrain components...

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Originally Posted by 95naSTA
I wasn't 100% positive that the stock LS6 retainers would work so I got the Comp'*. If you can verify that they will, I'd say go for it.
I'll have to double check that myself...I believe I read it in an article on the zzp site. The price difference isn't huge, so I guess that unless I get LS6 retainers in a "package deal" with the LS6 springs, I might as well get the better documented CompCams retainers.

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Originally Posted by 95naSTA
I got the comp locks as cheap insurance if anything. Others have run stock locks but I'd rather go with something designed for increased spring pressure.
Understood. I searched on "Sealed Power" brand valvetrain components and got some severe warnings...and genuine OEM'* from gmpartsdirect would run some $25 anyway, so I might as well pony up for the CompCams locks (zzp claims to have the "new and improved" version you mentioned earlier).

Quote:
Originally Posted by 95naSTA
The major advantage is that they are lower. This dosn't really matter though in this situation
I assume that advantage on the valve seals comes into play at even more aggressive lifts than what I'm proposing. I'll never cam this engine, so I guess the Fel-Pro'* ought to be fine (hooray, I saved $10!).

So, as of now, apart from the rockers themselves, the parts list is:
-GM OEM LS6 springs
-CompCams steel retainers (or GM OEM LS6 retainers)
-CompCams locks / keepers
-Fel-Pro OEM-style valve seals
-Reuseable rocker bolts (CompCams or Intense "unnamed brand")

I have some more questions, but I'll put them in another thread so they don't get lost in this one.
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Old 04-11-2007, 01:14 PM   #12
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Lookin good.
This may go without saying but, what about valve cover gaskets?
You may not need them if you replaced them recently.
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Old 04-11-2007, 02:20 PM   #13
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I've got Fel-Pro VC gaskets and grommets waiting for this job.

It'll probably be about 2 months before this is all done, so I've got time to scour EBAY and ClubGP for parts in the meantime
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Old 04-11-2007, 03:48 PM   #14
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LS6 retainers will work. I'm using them on my car right now.

Still, with 92k on your motor, I'm struggling to believe you're getting valve float on a stock valvetrain. I didn't do my cam or motor mods until I had 115k-120k on my car, and I don't recall there being any valve float or issues revving to 6000rpm. I'm not saying you're lying, Agra, but I'm wondering if you're running up against restrictions of a mostly stock motor (from a flow standpoint). I think it'* cool that you're modding, and I haven't even seen the car, but I think you'd probably be safe shifting at 6000rpm in current form. Just my $.02
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Old 04-11-2007, 04:39 PM   #15
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Get some 90lb springs & retainers and you'll be able to spin it as high as you'll ever want. I have 90lb springs and modded retainers in mine and my shift points are ~6500ish and my rev limiter is 7000 which i have hit numerous times with no issues, this is with stock pushrods and stock lifters as well, and stock style rocker arms. I have a stock L36 bottom end and significantly more valve lift then you will have so if I have no issues revving to 7k then I don't see how you would have an issue spinning to 6250.

Although with stock valvetrain I'm not quite sure what the point would be of revving it that high because you don't make any power up there.

Don't waste your money on keepers....there is absolutely nothing wrong with the stock ones, they are a piece of solid metal that holds the valve in....I'm not sure why comp cams ones would be any better than stock ones....I just know stock ones are already in there and mine work great with over 200k on them. I would go with the viton valve seals as they have .020" extra clearance in case you decide to throw a nice cam in there later. Modded retainers for this same reason might not be a bad idea either. And as was said DEFINATELY go with reuseable rocker bolts. You only have to tear it apart one time for them to pay for themselves.
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Old 04-12-2007, 02:34 PM   #16
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Thanks yet again for all the help and opinions in this thread and my "spinoff" thread:
http://www.bonnevilleclub.com/forum/...ic.php?t=75900

After digesting it all, and re-running my calculations--this time modeling in projected losses at speed--it is pretty darned unlikely I'll ever need to exceed a 6000 rpm shift point, even with all the mods I'm willing to do.

That being the case, I'm planning to install the modded stock rockers on the stock valvetrain (with reuseable rocker bolts) for now. Unfortunately, this does nothing for my seat pressure, and raises open pressure from 227 lb to 247 lb (9% increase), so I get NO valve float help and possibly some added wear from this plan...

After testing, if it becomes apparent that I need to exceed a 6000 rpm shift point--either because I am leaving ponies on the table or I'm getting valve float--I'll pony up the dough for upgraded springs. Of course, by that point, it'll probably be a question of, "do I really want to spend another $250 and do 6 more hours labor to shave 0.05 sec off the 1/4 mile on my daily driver?"

If it does come to needing upgraded springs, I'll probably go with the CompCams 105'* with the Manley "thin" retainers, so as to get the benefit of the higher seat pressure while trying to avoid the issue of increased timing component wear.
(Upon further research, I've read WAY too many horror stories about the LS6 springs on the 3800...I fully expect this engine to last another 100k miles)

All of this leads me to ANOTHER question, which I'll post in yet ANOTHER spinoff thread...
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