Got my Bonnie's wish list - wadday think?? - GM Forum - Buick, Cadillac, Chev, Olds, GMC & Pontiac chat


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Old 05-04-2007, 01:41 AM   #1
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Default Got my Bonnie'* wish list - wadday think??

I am 50 and I don't race so my speedo will likely never see 90mph. My interest is in throttle response and fuel economy. This has me look to things that will reduce KR and increase volumetric efficiency. I also want to maintain the comfort and luxury of my Bonneville, so I don't want to do something that will make it noisier or run less smoothly.

After spending 80 - 100 hours reading post after post and asking questions, This is what I think I want to do:

install a 180* drilled thermostat
add a throttle body spacer
ceramic coated crossover pipe
Fender well induction

All of the above items are intended to keep the induction as cool as possible (along with the associated KR reduction).

To increase the volumetric efficiency:

High flow catalytic converter
ported front exhaust manifold
ZZP ER rocker arms

Now that the engine will flow more freely, I will want to take advantage with a reprogrammed PCM. I would rather not deviate from stock valve springs so I don't want to get too radical with increased RPM or higher shift points (again, I'll never get to 90mph). The thing I HATE is the KR delay on the 1-2 upshift. What are they thinking!

I'd love to hear your comments!
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Old 05-04-2007, 01:50 AM   #2
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Default Re: Got my Bonnie'* wish list - wadday think??

Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkjet
I am 50 and I don't race so my speedo will likely never see 90mph.
You don't need to race to enjoy a little more power under the hood


Sounds good except for the TB spacer & I'm unsure if a ceramic coated crossover will do anything. As for the rockers with stock valve springs any time you increase lift or duration it is a very good idea to upgrade your valve springs. May I suggest a shift kit for your transmission too?


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Old 05-04-2007, 01:51 AM   #3
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There is no gain in the tb spacer but I like the fwi and poeted manni'*.
You could add a flase knock Elimination Kit from intense for the 1 to 2 shift, will help some.
http://www.intense-racing.com/Mercha...ategory_Code=T
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Old 05-04-2007, 02:05 AM   #4
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Default Re: Got my Bonnie'* wish list - wadday think??

Quote:
Originally Posted by McGrath
You don't need to race to enjoy a little more power under the hood
EXACTLY!

Quote:
Sounds good except for the TB spacer & I'm unsure if a ceramic coated crossover will do anything.
ZZP says the TB spacer keeps the coolant out of the TB. As for the ceramic coated crossover, I saw some test (I don't remember where) that had infra red imagery and it showed much lower TB temps from the crossover heat radiation. Much better than fiberglass wrap.

Quote:
As for the rockers with stock valve springs any time you increase lift or duration it is a very good idea to upgrade your valve springs.
ZZP says factory springs will work if you don't raise the shift points too high. They even say that too stiff a spring can be detrimental.
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Old 05-04-2007, 02:08 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PontiacDad
There is no gain in the tb spacer
Good to know...

Quote:
You could add a flase knock Elimination Kit from intense for the 1 to 2 shift, will help some.
Thanks, the reprogrammed PCM should work too.
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Old 05-04-2007, 02:27 AM   #6
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Default Re: Got my Bonnie'* wish list - wadday think??

Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkjet
ZZP says factory springs will work if you don't raise the shift points too high. They even say that too stiff a spring can be detrimental.
I wouldn't take that advice from ZZP; sure they will work but I'm speaking of longivity here. The life span of the springs will be greatly reduced with higher ratio rockers or a cam, even if your shift points are stock.

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Old 05-04-2007, 03:08 AM   #7
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Default Re: Got my Bonnie'* wish list - wadday think??

Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkjet
install a 180* drilled thermostat
add a throttle body spacer
ceramic coated crossover pipe
Fender well induction

All of the above items are intended to keep the induction as cool as possible (along with the associated KR reduction).
T-stat is cheap and keeps coolant temps down, go for it.
TB Spacer...there are simpler ways to plug the coolant ports into the TB, if that'* what you want (a little epoxy, for example).
Ceramic coated crossover pipe...likely not worth the $$$, IMO.
Fender well induction...if you think you'll need that. Bear in mind you'll have to swap back in your stock intake for CA smog inspections.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkjet
To increase the volumetric efficiency:

High flow catalytic converter
ported front exhaust manifold
ZZP ER rocker arms
High flow cat...I'm not convinced you'll need it for your proposed power level; others may have differing opinions. Also, if CA smog inspectors notice it, you could be screwed.
Ported front EM...yes, definitely.
ER rockers...after mulling it over for a long time on my own upcoming modded stock rocker install (and reading some broken stock valvespring horror stories), I would strongly advise upgraded valvesprings. CompCams 105# beehive springs (p/n 26915, if I recall correctly) seem to be the consensus pick.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkjet
Now that the engine will flow more freely, I will want to take advantage with a reprogrammed PCM. I would rather not deviate from stock valve springs so I don't want to get too radical with increased RPM or higher shift points (again, I'll never get to 90mph). The thing I HATE is the KR delay on the 1-2 upshift. What are they thinking!

I'd love to hear your comments!
Oh, you'll occasionally do 90+ mph once you get these mods! And to get the most out of them, you'll need to increase shift points at least a little (do the valvesprings!).

As to the PCM; if you've got the bucks, I would highly recommend a tuner, rather than buying just a tuned PCM. You'll have complete control, and, among other things, can zap the KR gremlins with surgical precision. Skip the ceramic coating on the crossover and put the $$ toward a tuner...best car toy you can get.

BTW, I can't recommend porting the Lower Intake Manifold (LIM) highly enough. Best "almost free" mod I know of. Surely you've seen some threads on that. Also gives you something to do while swapping out the plastic LIM gaskets for newer aluminum gaskets.

Finally, with all of the above, you will probably be needing a larger-bored TB. Some go with a Northstar conversion, some port TB'* or buy ported TB'* from vendors; I'm going with a L67 TB modded to fit the L36.
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Old 05-04-2007, 03:20 AM   #8
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It is difficult to know who to believe. This is from Wizbang, the guy that did the dyno testing for ZZP. It is difficult to ignore.

Quote:
# Run stock valve springs ONLY if you are/will not raise your shift points above the stock shift points.
Quote:
# Replace the stock valve springs ONLY on the Intake Valves. Leave the stock springs on the Exhaust Valves. The Exhaust Valves with stock springs and ER Rockers have been tested to near 7,000 RPM and do not float. Installing heavier springs is only adding to parasitic HP loss and additional valvetrain stress and wear.

# High mileage (stock or otherwise) valve springs are not bad by any rationale or by virtue of their age or length of service. In fact, they actually have a higher reliability due to their age and use. This is because springs undergo a type of stress relieving called aging and elevating temperatures increases the rate at which the steel ages. As the springs undergo this stress relieving, they will loose some spring rate or tension. The rate at which they loose their tension decreases asymptotically with time. This means they undergo much of their stress relieving early in their service life and much less later on. If a valve spring is manufactured properly, they will not undergo fatigue failure. I would have higher confidence in springs that have been in service for 100K miles than new springs. The older springs have proven not have any defects in the metal that will lead to a premature failure. These older springs have withstood the test of time. Regardless of the decrease in spring rate, the springs will far out-last the engine in all respects.

I can see an argument for changing the intake springs, but I have a hard time knowing who to listen to. I think I would lean toward the guy that is getting his hands dirty doing the actual testing.
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Old 05-04-2007, 03:28 AM   #9
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Default Re: Got my Bonnie'* wish list - wadday think??

Thanks Andrew, good feedback.

Quote:
Originally Posted by agrazela
Bear in mind you'll have to swap back in your stock intake for CA smog inspections.
Quote:
High flow cat...I'm not convinced you'll need it for your proposed power level; others may have differing opinions. Also, if CA smog inspectors notice it, you could be screwed.
I think I have this licked since I got the car online and purchased it in Ohio so it is a "federal" car.

I am still not sure about springs - but I'm still listening...
Quote:
Ceramic coated crossover pipe...likely not worth the $$$, IMO.
It'* only $60! My buddy went to buy a stock one from GM and even with his discount it was $170. Anyway it doesn't look like a big risk.
Quote:
TB Spacer...there are simpler ways to plug the coolant ports into the TB, if that'* what you want (a little epoxy, for example).
Good idea!
Quote:
As to the PCM; if you've got the bucks, I would highly recommend a tuner, rather than buying just a tuned PCM. You'll have complete control, and, among other things, can zap the KR gremlins with surgical precision.
How much money???
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Old 05-04-2007, 03:48 AM   #10
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I sent you a PM on the ported/ceramic coated front PEM, but I also have a L36 LIM here that I am going to be porting. I also have the aluminum gaskets (were installed, and started the engine to find the bearings had sat in coolant too long -so the gaskets were installed and run for no more than 2 minutes.... then uninstalled 3 days later -should be reuseable), so I can do gasket matching on the ports for the LIM to the head.
I can do the porting on the LIM, and I also have a new Dorman UIM with the good stove-pipe..... perfect timing for updating the UIM before the OEM goes bad, especially if you are going to be putting a ported LIM and aluminum gaskets on.
I can cut you a deal on the whole PEM, ported LIM, GM LIM aluminum gaskets, new Dorman UIM, and L67 coils (yes, the Series II supercharged coils are hotter -equivalent to MSD'*, but a lot easier to sneak past the emissions inspectors) for $310 shipped to your door.
The ceramic coating on the crossover is only like $35, but the shop I have doing my porting now said the stock heat shield on the crossover does a better job than the ceramic coating, but if you want to reinstall the heatshield over the ceramic that'* even better. Problem is I don't have any spare cross over pipes at the moment and salvage yards don't want to sell just the crossover.
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