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Old 01-18-2010, 11:21 PM   #1
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Default E85

I've been considering switching over to E85 for a while. As far as I know, no one here has done this. If you have, speak up. I want to toss ideas around and see what we come up with. I'm in the very early stages of this idea.

Why switch to E85? Well, pump gas has a octane rating of 91-93. As those of us that are boosted know, octane is our friend. E85 has a octane rating of 105-110. I'm thinking I have your attention now.

Negatives, Mileage will drop 10%-20%, Need bigger injectors, and possibly larger fuel pump.

Positives, way high octane, E85 is cold, and cools the charge. Higher boost. Lower per gallon price.

So, as far as I know injectors need to be larger, and a lot of tuning needs to be done. MAF tables need to be increased 10%, and another 10% added to the PE table. Timing needs to be adjusted. Looks like about 4* needs to be removed.

It also sounds like the O rings are OK. Not sure on the fuel pump, I think it should be OK. Fuel lines are good, but not sure about the plastic lines. I ran race fuel that I mixed myself with no issues. And that was 50% xylene (117 octane) But at $10 a gallon, I think E85 is a far better choice.

Lets hear your thoughts here.
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Old 01-18-2010, 11:49 PM   #2
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DO NOT SWITCH TO E85!

Why? 1)You're engine was NOT designed to run on E85. 2)E85 is equally 87 Octane regular fuel, not 91/93 Octane premium which your motor calls for. 3)E85 is a less efficient fuel that will cut your fuel mileage by about half or more.
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Old 01-19-2010, 12:51 AM   #3
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Dan...some issues about E85 to consider:

E-85 ethanol is used in engines modified to accept higher concentrations of ethanol. Such flexible-fuel vehicles (FFV) are designed to run on any mixture of gasoline or ethanol with up to 85% ethanol by volume. There are a few major differences between FFVs and non-FFVs. One is the elimination of bare, aluminum, and rubber parts in the fuel system. Another is that fuel pumps must be capable of operating with electrically conductive ethanol instead of non-conducting dielectric gasoline fuel. Fuel injection control systems have a wider range of pulse widths to inject approximately 40% more fuel. Stainless steel fuel lines, sometimes lined with plastic, and stainless steel fuel tanks in place of terne fuel tanks are used. In some cases, FFVs use acid-neutralizing motor oil. For vehicles with fuel-tank mounted fuel pumps, additional differences to prevent arcing, as well as flame arrestors positioned in the tank'* fill pipe, are also sometimes used. (Wikipedia)

The octane rating of E85 has been hotly debated. Retailers often display a rating of 105 to 110, however when calculating the actual octane rating with the standard (R+M)/2 method, the octane range is more like 94 to 96, which has been proven during testing of blends up to 85% of ethanol.

With the risks associated with using this fuel in a vehicle that it was not equipped for and to get a one octane higher minimum rating, I don't think it'* justified.
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Old 01-19-2010, 08:06 AM   #4
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My biggest problem right now, is not one single station even sells E85 in Sheboygan. So this is kind of a dead issue right now. Might consider using it in race gas and have a different tune for that. But running it every day is not a option.
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Old 01-19-2010, 08:09 AM   #5
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Dan have you played with Toluene "Rocket fuel" yet? Old school octane booost that actually works!

http://www.elektro.com/~audi/audi/toluene.html

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Old 01-19-2010, 08:12 AM   #6
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I used Xylene, about the same.
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Old 01-19-2010, 08:41 AM   #7
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I hate E85 personally myself. I had a Flex Fuel Avalanche. No stations in Florida sold it, so when i went up to MO one time I tried it out. On a 32 gallon tank at 18MPG I could usually get about 500 or so miles out of a tank of regular unleaded. One tank of E85 left me needing fuel again at around 300. That'* almost 50% less fuel economy.
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Old 01-19-2010, 11:46 AM   #8
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E85 is going nowhere. It isn't a solution to any problem. I too have looked into it for some of my own vehicles, especially the Jag, (fuel econmy is terrible on a 4000lb V12 coupe) and find that its simply not worth it. Out here in Illinois, the cost savings of using E85 is negligible. Its about 25% cheaper, but your fuel economy drops by 40%-50%.

If I wanted to be that eco-friendly, I'd ride my bike or take public transport.
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Old 01-19-2010, 12:26 PM   #9
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I have already posted about this, because I have done my homework, educated myself, instead of listening to that guy down the street of the lady at the gas station. E-85 (which is actually anywhere between E60 and E85 in illinois) Actually has an octane rating anywhere between 105 and 115, has a lower boiling point for better atomization and resists pre-detonation better than some racing fuels. *#4

E85 Needs to be tuned differently then gasoline. It has a lower stoichiometric ratio, so more of it is required then would be required with regular gas. This is not a drawback, more fuel (at a lower temp then the discharge air temp) will cool off the hot air right before it goes into the combustion chamber. One problem with the E85 you buy from the pumps here in Illinois (same in other states) is that they use "winter blends" which have different percentages of E-85 and require different tuning.

Gasoline stoichiometric 14.7
E85 stoichiometric 9.765
E100 stoichiometric 9.0078

This was going to be alot longer but I got bored. . . .


Sources:
  1. Wikipedia
  2. ChitownDSM
  3. E85Mustangs.com
  4. Rockett Rcing Fuels
  5. E85 Station Finder
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Old 01-19-2010, 12:37 PM   #10
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The only thing E85 has done is add across the scale to manufacturing/retailing costs of cars and fuel, artificially raise corn prices on speculation, and further caused millions of 3rd world children to starve. Nice Job Detroit/US GOV !!!
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