Colder t-stat myths - Page 4 - GM Forum - Buick, Cadillac, Chev, Olds, GMC & Pontiac chat


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Old 07-01-2003, 07:52 PM   #31
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Yes, the upper intakes usually fail due to the EGR port running through the upper intake, and causing the plastic to degrade.... The slightly cooler thermostat 180F will aid in helping keep the upper intake cooler, but it will not solve the upper intake problem... It may just prolong the structural integrity of the upper intake... My 2nd upper intake has now lasted as long as the original, without loosing any coolant... I'll be looking into ripping it off and replacing it in the near future, just to see the amount of degradation around the EGR stove pipe...
Why don't you block off your EGR and eliminate the heat problem altogether??

I'm going to block mine off for heat and cleanliness reasons even though I don't have a plastic intake.
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Old 07-01-2003, 08:45 PM   #32
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Because this will cause the combustion temps to rise causing burnt valves and or cracked exahust manifolds in the long run, much in the same manner as the 92 bonneville without the EGR valve.... This is why it was reintroduced into the 93 and later models...
I don't understand. What makes this engine any different than any other. I have been running for 20 years with my V8 Firebird with a blocked off EGR and no problems. It runs cooler and cleaner.

EGR is done for emmision reasons...I thought. How can removing a source of heat cause the temps to rise?
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Old 07-01-2003, 09:00 PM   #33
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OK, I did a little reading on the subject.
EGR was not used standard prior to 1973. It was introduced to indead lower the combustion temperature and reduce the amount of oxides of nitrogen produced.
The valve is closed at idle and at full throttle. It only opens mid throttle when the engine is warm.
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Old 07-01-2003, 10:39 PM   #34
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So I guess if you live in a state like NJ, with car inspections systems that seem like an illegal industry within itself (I'd rather get my teeth drilled without Novacaine then get in a free inspection line), who seem to thrive more on failing cars for emissions than passing them - any car without the EGR could benefit and run more efficiently with the intended 195 t-stat in emissions testing while risking a cracked intake....Use a 180 t-stat and you might benefit from possibly eliminating the plastic intake problem, but run the risk of failing emissions testing.
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Old 07-01-2003, 11:14 PM   #35
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I'm lucky enough to live in an area that does not have emission testing.
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Old 07-01-2003, 11:52 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by TiMSmo0th
Yes no yes no yes no.....
ok now that i can't make up my mind, I live in Louisiana, and it gets HOT here, so should I get one for my N/A series 1 with no stock co0ler? Let me know what you think. I have already had my tranny rebuilt before, so I want to keep it as long as I can.

-and I want to put in a 180* stat also.... any thoughts?
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Old 07-02-2003, 12:24 AM   #37
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Tim, since we don't have to worry about any plastic parts on our cars... a 180 T stat is a good idea. I installed one, it opens up your t-stat at 180 degress-ish, esp at the age of our cars, its best to keep things on the cooler side

I think Jr will attest to that
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Old 07-02-2003, 12:30 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by jonboll
My car (97 SE) is having problems with burning the tranny fluid. I just had it flushed and a new filter, and 6k miles later its hardly even pink anymore. When it got changed it was dark brown and smelled heavily of burning (might have even tasted like it). So, I'm thinking a tranny cooler would help me in my case. I want to say that obviously there is some problem with the transmission that is causing this, but I can't get the dealership I get it serviced at to find anything wrong without paying them to take it apart (which I want to avoid). I guess after a tranny cooler, and probably another flush, we'll have to see what it does.
Sorry to tell you this, but if you are burning fluid, changing to new fluid is one of the worst things you can do. The detergents in the new fluid will eat the **** out of the packing in your tranny. Your best bet would have been to leave the old tranny fluid in ther until you made the decision to either sell the car or replace the tranny. I know I have been there and done that. BTW, a rebuild will cost you around $1200-1500.

Jay
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Old 07-02-2003, 12:38 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by dbtk2
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what if we have high summer temps and sub-zero winter temps???
I am in Michigan and basically have the same weather as you. I understand exactly where you are coming from there. The IDEAL transmission cooler setup would be a small transmission cooler mounted in front of the radiator, but with a Thermostat or a driver controlled switch and guage. That way if it had a thermostat it could open and close with the temperature like the engine thermostat does, that way it never gets too hot or too cold. The thermostat would be more ideal because it would be automatic and the driver could lose attention or forget about it and not turn it on. But the driver controlled switch would work if you wanted to turn it on and off all of the time. You would have to have a transmission temperature gauge in the car, and when it hit a certain temperature (180-200*F) the driver would turn the switch on, then when the temps went back down to like 160 or 180 they would turn the switch off. But, I am thinking that if someone were to install a tranny cooler with a 180 degree thermostat it would be ideal. That is probably the only way I would install a tranny cooler on any car I owned.
I totally agree. After installing a tranny cooler, the first thing that you notice is that milage goes to **** during the winter. This is due to the fact that the tranny cooler does too good of a job during the winter. If the tranny temp does not get up to a certain level, then the tranny will not allow the torque converter to lock out. This is not a big deal, unless your route to/from work takes you quickly on to an interstate. Looking at your tach and seeing upwards of 1000 RPM more that usual at 65MPH until the tranny warms up is not a good feeling. BTW, the coolant temp in my Olds had to get to 146 deg. F before the T/C would lock out. On "real" cold days, that may never happen until several miles at highway speeds.

Jay
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Old 07-02-2003, 04:23 AM   #40
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Well for starters the Fire Bird was a totally diffrent animal... Nothing like the 3800'* of today or yesteryear... The fuel injection is a diffrent world as compared to a Carb... The Bonneville you have runs within a very fine line, air to fuel ratio in the bonnies is 14.6-14.7 to 1 ratio... The is a MAP, MAF, TPS, HO2 POS 1, HO2 POS 2, which monitors and controlls the fuel dilevery of the 3800 96 and later... I don't know what happened in the Buick 3800 engines, but in 92 GM did discover that the car would pass emissions without the EGR valve... So for the 1992 model year the 3800 NA engines were built without the EGR.... GM came to realize that they were having serious trouble with burnt valves and cracking exahust manifolds... They had also found that the combustion temps had risen causing there problems due to the removal of the EGR valve... So for the 93 model year it was reintroduced, and the cracked manifolds and burnt valves have pretty much gone away.. I have seen a few of the 92 3800'* now that have had that very problem with the exahust valves... If you would like to know more talk to the DeathRat.... He can tell you a lot about this subject...
I got some feedback from Deathrat. Sounds like as long as you combat the heat with 180 stats ie. cooler coolant and lower friction with synthetic oil it should be OK.

I'm going for it. Let you know in 20 years if it'* a problem.
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