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Performance, Brainstorming & Tuning Talk about modifications, or anything else associated with performance enhancements. Have a new idea for performance/reliability? Post it here. No idea is stupid! (please use Detailing and Appearance for cosmetic ideas)

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Old 11-02-2004, 05:40 PM   #1
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All this talk lately of "turbo kits in pre-production" and what-not is interesting. The four-banger posse of the world has been trying to shove air down the throat of 1.6-2.2L motors ever since it was still acceptable to have 14'* or even (gasp!) 13'* on your Honda Civic.

Now, I understand the 3800 Series I & II n/a motors to be worthy of their salt, and a wise father-in-law of mine has spent many an hour waxing on about "meritorious service to the automotive industry" and so forth. Turbocharging such a great powerplant was an aftermarket stroke of genious just waiting to happen. I mean, you don't even have to make new manifolds for god'* sake! That usually consumes at least 1/4-1/3 of the fabrication budget for a DIY system these days, what with used intercoolers and rebuilt TD04'* running rampant about the countryside.

What if by some miracle of mandrel-bent science, two hairdryers instead of one could be coaxed under that sexy Bonneville hood? I mean, think of it! Two little mini-me TD05'*, from say a totalled GS-T Eclipse or some otherwise unsuspecting junkyard victim, with dual sequential BOV'*, pushing full mid-range boost through two of the cutest little Jap-spec intercoolers you've ever seen to create the craziest tire-liquifying 'whh-pssshhhhhh' symphony ever! Someone has GOT to help me figure this thing out. My wife caught me in the bathroom last night drawing piping schematics all over the cover of her U.*. News "America'* Best Graduate Schools" issue. Let'* just say she said she thought I was doing something else in there.

I'm officially seeking professional help here. I know most of the fuel/spark issues associated with turbo applications - someone has to have ideas on the board for how to make a TT system work in the Bonneville engine bay... thank you in advance, i look forward to the conversation.
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Old 11-02-2004, 05:52 PM   #2
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Scan your drawings in and everything you know allready, which could help out members alot more. Your talking about adding two turbo'*, right? What are you going to do to the tranny of your Bonne? Plus it could help what year your car is.
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Old 11-03-2004, 02:15 PM   #3
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How are you planing to run TT? One off of each bank, and in a sequential mode? Or will you do parallel, each turbo feeding 3 cyl? I think as long as yoiu have tuning electronics (boost controllers, timing controller, AFC setup etc, the hardest part is getting something in there. One place that would use stock manifolds would be on the down pipe. Another alternative is to use stock manifolds, but don't use a downpipe, modify the crossover, or builda new one, into a Y and run the turbo off there.
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Old 11-03-2004, 04:54 PM   #4
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Twister97 - I'll redraw things into something legible and scan it in for ideas. Yes, two turbos is the idea, and it'* a 93 SLE. I guess the wise thing to do is buy a fully built tranny and torque converter after power potential has been assessed.

BonneMeMN - The idea is to have each bank running a single smaller turbo almost directly off the manifold (maybe by simply replacing the flange?), then route piping to an intercooler(*), on into the intake. If you can keep each turbo close to the stock manifold, I think crossover design can be kept pretty simple. I like your idea of just modifying the existing crossover to power the turbos. I admit I am worried about restricted flow issues created by simply altering the stock setup, but I think it could work pretty well and provide a good starting point. However the turbines are mounted, the trick is the intercooling. I've been struggling with ideas on how to route the rear turbo'* piping around the driver'* side of the block and still keep it efficient. Would it be wise to go under I wonder? I am measuring and seeing if it'* possible to arrange two small intercoolers in front of the block and then have the flow combined with a y-pipe right before the intake, or if it would be wiser to use a single larger intercooler where turbo flow is combined right before it enters the core. Either way there is some decent room to maneuver some mandrel bends in the engine bay and it'* only a matter of time before I find the way. Of course, the usual array of electro gizmos would be required for this setup, as would properly sized wastegates and a better than decent fuel setup, but all those details can be worked out easily with the right parts catalog. Get back to me if you have any routing ideas. Thanks for the replies.
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Old 11-03-2004, 07:40 PM   #5
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as much fun as a twin turbo set up sounds rolling off the tongue... theres really no point...

you can damn near double a Series 1'* hp with a tiny un modded CT26 off a toyota (will throw enough air for 310-325 hp before the turbo wants to go into danger territory...and during a rebuild you can get them done to 60-1 specs (500+ hp handling)

unless your going entirely custom internals .. you can destroy your motor with a stock GN turbo

the next beautiful thing with both of these turbo'* is .. they will spool QUICK on a 3.8 ..hell a CT26 could be almost total spooled to it'* max on a 3.8 by 2900-3200 rpm or LESS

look at the GN world... 9 sec... 10 sec single turbo cars.... worried about lag? it'* an automatic car... this is what 2 step rev limiters and different stall converters are for... before your even leave the line.. your engine is underload and spooled ... (unlike alot of manual trans cars where they can rev up for some boost off the line .. but the engine isn't loaded so when the clutch is dumped... they loose all that wonderful boost)


now please don't misunderstand me... if you wanna make a twin turbo system for ***** and giggles be my guest... hell I wanna see it too ... but know that it'* not nessasary at all and all your doing is potenially doubling your cost for a build, as cool as a twin turbo system would be
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Old 11-03-2004, 09:28 PM   #6
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Gotta say this would be fun, but like PHT says... There'll be quite abit more cost involved by running two when one will be more than efficient (unless you are wanting some extremely serious power). Heck, getting a single hybrid turbo like a large T3 or small T4, will cost a lot less, than all the troubles you'll be dealing with as far as programming the two turbo'*, and the engine management system (spendy is just the beginning as there'll be a few re-calibrations no doubt just getting it running decent).
Also, as Jason mentioned, the trans will defintely be in need of some heavy duty hardwares.
P.*. If you can afford it and have the means of making your own turbo setup, I and many others here will be here to back you up through your trials and tribulations. I for one would love to see someone turbocharge a L27 Bonneville.
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Old 11-03-2004, 11:14 PM   #7
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Can my car be the project car?
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Old 11-04-2004, 12:46 AM   #8
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Ok heres an idea...run 2 small turbos off the crosover tube with the intake pipes routing together in the stock airbox location then run the tubes that go to the TB into a top mount i.e. Suburu WRX style intercooler with 2 inlets and one big outlet running straight to the TB .....then get the hoodscoop off a WRX and weld it onto the Bonnes hood (after cutting the hole in the hood for the airflow) So now you have a shorter path of airflow therfore less lost boost and on top of that you have a friggin functional hoodscoop on a Bonne!!!!! Imagine popping the hood and seeing peoples eyes is that a top mount intercooler on a Bonneville???!?!?!?!?!?!
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Old 11-04-2004, 12:52 AM   #9
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first off thanks everyone for the replies. I thought twin turbo for the simple (or not so simple) reason that I've driven a TT 300Z, Supra and Stealth and have been massively impressed with their driveability versus similarly sized (3.0L) custom single turbo setups. Turning an L27 into a turbo street car started sounding pretty darned good to me after giving it some consideration and realizing it can handle the road far better than any straight-line-only GN out there. I have chatted with local mechanics about using two different turbos for low-and-high-end everyday driving response and it seems to be the popular opinion that the differing backpressures could have an unresolute but decidedly undesirable effect on the motor, but ultimately the challenge could be overcome. Please realize I know I am trying something creative and probably unneccessarily difficult here, but ultimately the goal is to have done something unique with the car. I've got my sights set on getting this to work, and any help you guys can offer is greatly appreciated. Again thanks, and I am working on getting sketches for everyone to see.
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Old 11-04-2004, 12:56 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BonEvilSSEi
Ok heres an idea...run 2 small turbos off the crosover tube with the intake pipes routing together in the stock airbox location then run the tubes that go to the TB into a top mount i.e. Suburu WRX style intercooler with 2 inlets and one big outlet running straight to the TB .....then get the hoodscoop off a WRX and weld it onto the Bonnes hood (after cutting the hole in the hood for the airflow) So now you have a shorter path of airflow therfore less lost boost and on top of that you have a friggin functional hoodscoop on a Bonne!!!!! Imagine popping the hood and seeing peoples eyes is that a top mount intercooler on a Bonneville???!?!?!?!?!?!
THIS IS WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT... GREAT IDEA MAN!!! btw you posted as i was writing my last one hehe, otherwise i'd have congratulated you before.
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