Beating a dead horse?
03-15-2005, 03:40 AM
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Beating a dead horse?
ok, so i was looking a opensourceguys sig (LN3) and it looked waaay too much like my L36
so i found a pic from when i took my engine apart and compared it.
They definitely do have subtle differences but nothing wayy off by visual inspection.
So, do we know for sure a series 2 top end can be put on a LN3 or L27?
I'm changing my head gaskets this summer and i'll be able to take various measurements if someone is interested.
so i found a pic from when i took my engine apart and compared it.
They definitely do have subtle differences but nothing wayy off by visual inspection.
So, do we know for sure a series 2 top end can be put on a LN3 or L27?
I'm changing my head gaskets this summer and i'll be able to take various measurements if someone is interested.
03-15-2005, 07:43 AM
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if i'm thinking correctly, then you're still not able to do it.
the sII'* have the symetric heads, intake-exhaust, intake-exhaust, while the LN3 does not (someone correct me if i'm wrong). so even though you *might* be able to get the heads to bolt up, you'd need a new cam besides.
if you give me part numbers, you can avoid that whole 'measurement' hassle
the sII'* have the symetric heads, intake-exhaust, intake-exhaust, while the LN3 does not (someone correct me if i'm wrong). so even though you *might* be able to get the heads to bolt up, you'd need a new cam besides.
if you give me part numbers, you can avoid that whole 'measurement' hassle
03-15-2005, 08:24 AM
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And yeah, Series I valves are offset: EIEIIE while Series II is EIEIEI. You'd need a SII cam, the coolant ports obviously don't match up, you'd need the exhaust, you'd need the intake, then hope its got the same mounts for all the junk on the front end. All that is even hoping the cam is the same diameter, or you're in for some blockwork too.
Its good you were looking for things like that, one day it'll be met with "that just might work!"
03-15-2005, 11:06 AM
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Oh man... You all have me drooling on the keyboard....
Its all like Dr Jay said...
But I get the feeling that if you had a series 1 cam ground for the series II engine, I'll almost bet that you could attach the series 1 heads to the series II block... That would be funny, series 1 LN3 heads and intake attached to a series 2 block...
Now what we need to see are pics of the series I and series II heads side by side..
If you look at the L36 and LN3 pistons you see the diffrence in the dish.... The L36 pistons are damn near flat tops...
Let me get a little more into detail..
We need good quality Macro pics pf the heads from both 3800 I and 3800 II heads, both the valve side and rocker side to include bolt hole locations... Another question that come to mins is, are the threads the same between the engine blocks? What are the diffrences in head bolt length between the 2 engines? And how would the LN3 Puter handle 9.4-1 compression?
If this would be possible on the LN3, being that we could find the right cam, and get it to mount in the LN3-L27 cradle with the proper mounts I would think it would also be possible to do this with L27 heads as well...
But this is something that would take a lot of time and research, as no one yet knows what the end results would be...
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Its all like Dr Jay said...
But I get the feeling that if you had a series 1 cam ground for the series II engine, I'll almost bet that you could attach the series 1 heads to the series II block... That would be funny, series 1 LN3 heads and intake attached to a series 2 block...
Now what we need to see are pics of the series I and series II heads side by side..
If you look at the L36 and LN3 pistons you see the diffrence in the dish.... The L36 pistons are damn near flat tops...
Let me get a little more into detail..
We need good quality Macro pics pf the heads from both 3800 I and 3800 II heads, both the valve side and rocker side to include bolt hole locations... Another question that come to mins is, are the threads the same between the engine blocks? What are the diffrences in head bolt length between the 2 engines? And how would the LN3 Puter handle 9.4-1 compression?
If this would be possible on the LN3, being that we could find the right cam, and get it to mount in the LN3-L27 cradle with the proper mounts I would think it would also be possible to do this with L27 heads as well...
But this is something that would take a lot of time and research, as no one yet knows what the end results would be...
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03-15-2005, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by mkaake
if i'm thinking correctly, then you're still not able to do it.
the sII'* have the symetric heads, intake-exhaust, intake-exhaust, while the LN3 does not (someone correct me if i'm wrong). so even though you *might* be able to get the heads to bolt up, you'd need a new cam besides.
if you give me part numbers, you can avoid that whole 'measurement' hassle
the sII'* have the symetric heads, intake-exhaust, intake-exhaust, while the LN3 does not (someone correct me if i'm wrong). so even though you *might* be able to get the heads to bolt up, you'd need a new cam besides.
if you give me part numbers, you can avoid that whole 'measurement' hassle
Originally Posted by DrJay
the coolant ports obviously don't match up, you'd need the exhaust, you'd need the intake, then hope its got the same mounts for all the junk on the front end. All that is even hoping the cam is the same diameter, or you're in for some blockwork too.
I've got 2 L36 cams just sitting in my garage that i could take rough measurements of (i don't have a mic or calipers)
What work would have to be done to the block?
Originally Posted by jr's3800
Now what we need to see are pics of the series I and series II heads side by side..
Let me get a little more into detail..
We need good quality Macro pics pf the heads from both 3800 I and 3800 II heads, both the valve side and rocker side to include bolt hole locations... Another question that come to mins is, are the threads the same between the engine blocks? What are the diffrences in head bolt length between the 2 engines? And how would the LN3 Puter handle 9.4-1 compression?
If this would be possible on the LN3, being that we could find the right cam, and get it to mount in the LN3-L27 cradle with the proper mounts I would think it would also be possible to do this with L27 heads as well...
But this is something that would take a lot of time and research, as no one yet knows what the end results would be...
Let me get a little more into detail..
We need good quality Macro pics pf the heads from both 3800 I and 3800 II heads, both the valve side and rocker side to include bolt hole locations... Another question that come to mins is, are the threads the same between the engine blocks? What are the diffrences in head bolt length between the 2 engines? And how would the LN3 Puter handle 9.4-1 compression?
If this would be possible on the LN3, being that we could find the right cam, and get it to mount in the LN3-L27 cradle with the proper mounts I would think it would also be possible to do this with L27 heads as well...
But this is something that would take a lot of time and research, as no one yet knows what the end results would be...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2.../DSCF002g2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...A/DSCF0025.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...A/DSCF0012.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...A/DSCF0011.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...A/DSCF0014.jpg
I didn't think about the bolt/threads... that'* something i can find out this summer.
As for the computer, it might be able to be chipped but i don't think the compression would go all the way up to 9.4 with just the heads.
I am not saying this is going to or will work, i'm just curious because there is not concrete evidence to tell me otherwise. These engines have major diffrences but there is nothing saying it can't be done.
03-15-2005, 03:17 PM
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We need Justin in here to throw a few pics of his heads in... I forget if the LN3 used the heart chamber heads...
I was really thinking along the lines of attaching a set of LN3 heads to the L36 Block and dropping it into an 88-91 Bonnie... But the cam would have to be a series 2 style with the series one unsymetrical cam...
Another thing I was looking at was the pistons... If you have a set of LN3 heads making 8.5 to 1 compression with a dish that deep, what will it do with the L36 pistons being almost flat... Another concern would be the height of the mating surfaces for the LN3 intake onto the L36 block, It does actually look the same as far as thats concerned tho... Hard to say without actually having an LN3 and L36 apart to compare... But that would make for one fun 88-91 SSE with the 3.33 gear ratio....lol
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I was really thinking along the lines of attaching a set of LN3 heads to the L36 Block and dropping it into an 88-91 Bonnie... But the cam would have to be a series 2 style with the series one unsymetrical cam...
Another thing I was looking at was the pistons... If you have a set of LN3 heads making 8.5 to 1 compression with a dish that deep, what will it do with the L36 pistons being almost flat... Another concern would be the height of the mating surfaces for the LN3 intake onto the L36 block, It does actually look the same as far as thats concerned tho... Hard to say without actually having an LN3 and L36 apart to compare... But that would make for one fun 88-91 SSE with the 3.33 gear ratio....lol
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03-15-2005, 05:54 PM
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Originally Posted by 95naSTA
Damn, i totally forgot about the diffrent valve arangement but that might be fixed with a diffrent cam. good idea w/ the part # but i'm sure there will be some things somewhere with diffrent part #'* that will work.
03-15-2005, 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted by mkaake
Originally Posted by 95naSTA
Damn, i totally forgot about the diffrent valve arangement but that might be fixed with a diffrent cam. good idea w/ the part # but i'm sure there will be some things somewhere with diffrent part #'* that will work.
nice.
heres a part number for a 89 bonnie head:
24500759
one for a 93 n/a head:
24501418
and a 96 n/a head:
24508132
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