Adding Performance Shift Buttons for Those Without! - Page 2 - GM Forum - Buick, Cadillac, Chev, Olds, GMC & Pontiac chat


Performance, Brainstorming & Tuning Talk about modifications, or anything else associated with performance enhancements. Have a new idea for performance/reliability? Post it here. No idea is stupid! (please use Detailing and Appearance for cosmetic ideas)

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Old 07-21-2002, 12:49 PM   #11
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Teuobk-

You are exactly right on.. Pulled my console apart and it looks like all of the wires are already run! There really isnt even any splicing involved (unless your testing by adding ohms). G is the light blue wire that I was talking about which carries the signal to the PCM in "sport" mode, and H is the black wire that carries the signal to the PCM in "Normal" mode, E is the grey wire coming from the dimmer switch, A is the brown wire coming from the fuse box, and F is the ground. It looks like ALL of these wires are already there, and running right up into the switch through that "big" connector you were talking about. Must be the wires that are specifically for the perf. shift buttons are dead after that point (G & H).

I'm definetely going to head to the local GM only slavage yard tomorrow http://www.wilbertsgmparts.com/ and see if I can grab a switch with all the buttons. If it works then all of us SSE guys will have one cool, easy mod ahead of us. If not, then I'll just have 2 cool looking dummy buttons in my console I'll keep you posted...

None of you SSE guys have a friend close by with a SSEi do you ? If you do, take out the 2 screws underneath your front ashtray, pull out the clip on the front of your transmission handle and pull that off, then swing the whole center part of the console upwards from the front (its hinged). If you can borrow a friends SSEi switch pod for a sec, plug it in and let us know what happens! Very easy to do!

Later!
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Old 07-21-2002, 02:09 PM   #12
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Ok, another update... I was just doing some investigating on Http://www.acdelco.com for these switches. Get this, they show a part number for the switch pod on Bonnevilles (with traction control, without perf shifting, and without adj. suspension) and bonnevilles (with traction control, with perf shifting, without adj. suspension), but they dont show one for a bonneville equipped with all 3 I know it is possible to get all 3 options, I have seen Bonnevilles with all 5 buttons in them before, so that means that if AC-Delco doesnt make it like they do the other 2, for some god-saken reason the switch pod with all 5 buttons is geniune GM only. I have connections at a local dealer, so I'll get a price from them too on monday.

A little off this topic, but.....
Another thing I noticed while searching around on there... All Bonnnevilles (at least in '95 because that was the year I was comparing), wether they are an SSE or an SSEi have the same exact PCM. I also checked Partsamerica.com, and the A1 Cardone numbers are the same as well. The only thing that is different is the PROM chip, which needs to be swapped into the new PCM if the PCM is ever replaced. So this means that the connectors and wiring must be exactly the same between the 2 models. What I'm gettin at here, is what wires does the supercharged motor have that non supercharged motors dont?? Thinking about this switch mod actually made me begin to wonder if the entire car was wired like this.. Since the PCMs are the same, the supercharged version'* must not have any extra plugs or harnesses coming out of them, so I wonder if GM already ran all the wires, they just arent used on non-supercharged models...

You guys see where I'm going with this right.. Even if I kept my current tranny (which probably wouldnt hold up to the power long), swapping in a L67 if this was true would be an absolute no brainer. All of the mounts, bolts, sensors, etc... are all the same. Swap the PROM in the computer with one from a L67/4T60E SSEi, like a '96, and bingo, all set. I'm gonna seriously look into doing this... I got quotes of $2500 for a complete front clip of a '98 SSEI, which was L67, 4T65E-HD, shafts, bearings, computer, harnesses, etc.... If what I'm thinking holds true, and our cars are somewhat pre-wired for a Supercharged motor (just in disguise), I wouldnt need all that, just a L67 motor and a SSEi prom from a Supercharged SSEI that had the L67 mated to a 4T60E and not a 4T65E, like maybe a '96.

What do you guys think???
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Old 07-21-2002, 02:10 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terminator
You are exactly right on.. Pulled my console apart and it looks like all of the wires are already run! There really isnt even any splicing involved (unless your testing by adding ohms).
No splicing is required, as long as you don't need a permanent solution. Just pry off the switch pod, disconnect the big conector, and jam the appropriate resistor between H and G.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terminator
G is the light blue wire that I was talking about which carries the signal to the PCM in "sport" mode, and H is the black wire that carries the signal to the PCM in "Normal" mode ... It looks like ALL of these wires are already there, and running right up into the switch through that "big" connector you were talking about. Must be the wires that are specifically for the perf. shift buttons are dead after that point (G & H).
The wires are all there, and they are all completely run, including G and H. It'* not that G carries the "performance" signal and H carries the "normal" signal; rather, one of them (either G or H - I can't recall) is grounded and the other is hooked directly into the PCM diagnostic pin. "Normal" mode simply means that the diagnostic pin has a 5v potential relative to ground; "Performance" mode means that the diagnostic pin has a 2.5v potential relative to ground. The resistors cause the 2.5v drop. If the wires were not completely run, I would not be able to see a potential difference at the pins.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terminator
If you do, take out the 2 screws underneath your front ashtray, pull out the clip on the front of your transmission handle and pull that off, then swing the whole center part of the console upwards from the front (its hinged). If you can borrow a friends SSEi switch pod for a sec, plug it in and let us know what happens! Very easy to do
It'* even easier than that - just pull up on the switch pod. You don't need to remove any screws and don't need to disturb the rest of the console.
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Old 07-21-2002, 02:21 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terminator
I know it is possible to get all 3 options, I have seen Bonnevilles with all 5 buttons in them before, so that means that if AC-Delco doesnt make it like they do the other 2, for some god-saken reason the switch pod with all 5 buttons is geniune GM only. I have connections at a local dealer, so I'll get a price from them too on monday.
That'* strange. I've seen Bonnies with all five buttons too!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terminator
You guys see where I'm going with this right.. Even if I kept my current tranny (which probably wouldnt hold up to the power long), swapping in a L67 if this was true would be an absolute no brainer. All of the mounts, bolts, sensors, etc... are all the same. Swap the PROM in the computer with one from a L67/4T60E SSEi, like a '96, and bingo, all set. I'm gonna seriously look into doing this... I got quotes of $2500 for a complete front clip of a '98 SSEI, which was L67, 4T65E-HD, shafts, bearings, computer, harnesses, etc.... If what I'm thinking holds true, and our cars are somewhat pre-wired for a Supercharged motor (just in disguise), I wouldnt need all that, just a L67 motor and a SSEi prom from a Supercharged SSEI that had the L67 mated to a 4T60E and not a 4T65E, like maybe a '96.
That probably would work if you interchanged motors between 92 - 95, but the computer is completely different for 96+. I think that the entire wiring harness changed in that year, not to mention a plethora of new sensors for OBDII.

I know that it is possible to mate an OBDI computer to an OBDII motor like the L67. FieroX (from ClubGP) did exactly this. When he swapped an L67 into his Fiero, he wanted a custom PCM program. At the time, the OBDII code had not yet been cracked, so he had a guy custom program an OBDI computer to work. It all seems to work okay, but he spent a loooong time rewiring everything.

That being said, go for it! It would make an interesting project.
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Old 07-21-2002, 02:46 PM   #15
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ugh, your right... never checked that.. Well, I know my bonneville is OBD II, it has the OBD II connector under the drivers side dash, and when I had it at the dealer once, I asked them and they assured me that it was OBD II because of the tools they were using to scan codes and diagnose it. Since '95 SSEi'* still used the series I, that means I would be limited to installing a Series I supercharged motor :( I'm not saying thats a bad thing, but I think a Series I supercharged motor has pretty close to the same horsepower, etc... as my Series II Naturally Aspirated motor..

I guess I would need to find out what is exactly different, as far as sensors, etc... between a Series I motor and a Series II. Probably alot, which thorws my whole idea away Oh well, I guess that still leaves open oppertunity for a centrifigual */c, but if zzperformance thinks I'm paying $3,000 for theyre kit, they're freakin nuts, I doubt anyone will....
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Old 07-21-2002, 02:57 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terminator
ugh, your right... never checked that.. Well, I know my bonneville is OBD II, it has the OBD II connector under the drivers side dash, and when I had it at the dealer once, I asked them and they assured me that it was OBD II because of the tools they were using to scan codes and diagnose it. Since '95 SSEi'* still used the series I, that means I would be limited to installing a Series I supercharged motor :( I'm not saying thats a bad thing, but I think a Series I supercharged motor has pretty close to the same horsepower, etc... as my Series II Naturally Aspirated motor..
I thought the same thing, based off the fact that the DLC has the OBDII shape and that the Tech2 can communicate with it. Upon closer inspection, the DLC lacks certain essential OBDII pins, and others are in the wrong spots. The Tech2 has software to double as a Tech1, for reading OBDI computers. One of my friend'* fathers works as a service department manager at a GM dealership. On several occasions he brought a Tech2 home, and one time I hooked it up to my car. Indeed, it hooked up and started communicating just as it should. However, it only showed OBDI data, instead of the "everything plus the kitchen sink" display for OBDII. Nonetheless, it was interesting to see.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terminator
I guess I would need to find out what is exactly different, as far as sensors, etc... between a Series I motor and a Series II. Probably alot, which thorws my whole idea away Oh well, I guess that still leaves open oppertunity for a centrifigual */c, but if zzperformance thinks I'm paying $3,000 for theyre kit, they're freakin nuts, I doubt anyone will....
Throw a custom whipple charger on there, a la animuL
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Old 07-22-2002, 09:52 AM   #17
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Opps!
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Old 07-22-2002, 09:55 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terminator
. What I'm gettin at here, is what wires does the supercharged motor have that non supercharged motors dont?? Thinking about this switch mod actually made me begin to wonder if the entire car was wired like this.. Since the PCMs are the same, the supercharged version'* must not have any extra plugs or harnesses coming out of them, so I wonder if GM already ran all the wires, they just arent used on non-supercharged models...:
The only difference I can think of is that the Trans are different! The 3800 NA usually uses the 4T60-E & the 3800 SC uses the 4T65-E! Since the wiring harness for these trans are different, that may be it!
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Old 07-22-2002, 10:04 AM   #19
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DethRat-

One could only HOPE!!! I'm about to call up the salvage yard and the dealer and request prices on the switch pods. I'll post with info once I find out..

Later!
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Old 07-24-2002, 09:21 AM   #20
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Well, stopped by the dealer Monday after I had my rear window tinted in the city. At least they SHOWED a switch unit with all 5 gauges, which is the good news. The bad news is that it is GM special order only, and the frekin switch unit goes for $345.

$345 !!!!!!!!! For a little switch pod with 5 buttons!!

You believe that crap!

Looks like I'm off to the salvage yard.. I called them, but the guy on the phone had *no* idea what I was even talking about, so he told me just to come by and hed take me out back and look in the SSEi section to find what I needed.

I'll let ya know what happens, but I'm not giving up on this mod yet!!!
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