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Old 06-28-2004, 09:19 AM   #21
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Before I got my permit, and my first gun, I did'nt want anything to do with them (guns, permits, whatever). My consulting job takes me to a lot of different areas, at odd times of the day and night. I had one incident that "inspired" me to seek a means to protect myself, and I did just that.

This is a can of worms, pandora'* box, whatever, but the statistics do show that states that have a concealed cary law, or have recently enacted one are seeing a decline in violent crime statistics. As Will said, "no criminal likes the prospect of his intended victim being possible armed".

I dont have gun lust, just personal/family safety lust, but I guess I should join the navy to be cured of that?
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Old 06-28-2004, 09:57 AM   #22
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One thing that you also need to consider is the (fear, stress, adrenaline, <---Insert emotion-->) that you will encounter during the situation that you encounter.

I can tell you right now that I could EASILY hit what I wanted with a pistol at many different ranges. I could step outside and do it right now.

But, if I heard someone come through the back door of my house carrying a shottie, I would <--insert choice word for a bowel movement--> my pants. I doubt I could hit the broad side of a barn.

There are a couple things that I have read in different Tom Clancy novels that I would like to try some day. First from Rainbow 6. Try going out and running as fast as you can for 2-3 miles, then pick up your gun and try to hit something. Second is from Patriot Games. The firearms instructor dude put off a pack of firecrackers right before he told them to shoot. If you didn't expect it, I don't think you would shoot as good then either.

Just food for thought.
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Old 06-28-2004, 10:40 AM   #23
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I agree with MOS in some ways, I don't like the idea of just anyone (granted you don't come up a criminal) can get a permit to carry a gun. If you want to own a handgun, I don't have major problem with it...if you want to carry it into some place I'm hanging out-I do. There are obvious reasons law enforcement should be the exception to this. They have the years of training and they have the ablility to evaluate a situation and use the needed force.

Another problem I have with concealed weapons, is that they are a "way out" for their carriers. Your normal, non weapon carrying person knows that they don't have an automatic defense, so I think they are likely to be aware of the situation they are in and are often more likely to not put themselves in a place where they would need to physically defend themselves. Some people (not everyone, so I'm not generalizing) who carry guns may neglect to be this careful. In a sense, by having the "security" (and I use the term loosely) of having a firearm on them they might neglect to take the steps to keep themselves out of a situation and actually create the situation by their actions.
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Old 06-28-2004, 11:15 AM   #24
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Looks like my state will soon go to conceal and carry very soon now. It concerns me, as any man who has a family should be. I can tell you I won't own a gun. I'm not against anyone else doing so.

What I am against is exactly what'* been mentioned. If I knew my neighbor concealed and carried, but had the extent of training that Will has had, I'd feel fairly safe. But if I knew that my other neighbor concealed and carried, and simply paid some money for the permit, I'd be scared.

My city just banned pitbulls. To me, and inexperienced handgun owner is no different than an irresponsible pitbull owner. You need to be trained to control your weapon.

And, I think, a certain amount of profiling needs to happen.
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Old 06-28-2004, 11:36 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mremer
As Will said, "no criminal likes the prospect of his intended victim being possible armed".
Although this doesn't always hold true. Gang members shoot up their neighborhoods and each other all the time, and their victims DO carry weapons the majority of the time!

I'll readily admit that I don't know all the crime statistics regarding this issue between states... but my concern (regardless of location) is the amount of initial & continued training that is required to obtain a permit. If the various states do not require people to train on their weapons, then I fear that a many would (1) keep the permits "just because they can", and (2) would not use their own time/money to remain proficient on their weapons.
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Old 06-28-2004, 11:42 AM   #26
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Well of course you need to be responsible. There are safety training courses and ranges to practice. But TrueWildman, if your wife and child were being chased down the highway by a lunatic trying to run them off the road would you feel better that they didn't have a weapon or would you feel better if your wife was trained to use a weapon to protect herself and your child. It is all how you look at it. Even cops don't want to shoot someone but only will as a last resort. Have you ever had a gun held to your head? I have and it is frightening but had I had some type of defense I could have possibly avoided that situation all together.

Everyone has their opinions and I respect them all but until you experience some situations mentioned like the ones I mentioned above you need to put the shoe on the other foot. We have the right to bear arms and as long as its done responsibly I don't have a problem with someone carrying a weapon.
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Old 06-28-2004, 12:01 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SSE14U24ME
Well of course you need to be responsible. There are safety training courses and ranges to practice. But TrueWildman, if your wife and child were being chased down the highway by a lunatic trying to run them off the road would you feel better that they didn't have a weapon or would you feel better if your wife was trained to use a weapon to protect herself and your child. It is all how you look at it. Even cops don't want to shoot someone but only will as a last resort. Have you ever had a gun held to your head? I have and it is frightening but had I had some type of defense I could have possibly avoided that situation all together.

Everyone has their opinions and I respect them all but until you experience some situations mentioned like the ones I mentioned above you need to put the shoe on the other foot. We have the right to bear arms and as long as its done responsibly I don't have a problem with someone carrying a weapon.
Like I said, I have no problem with someone else carrying.

EDIT: Bah...said too much....
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Old 06-28-2004, 02:12 PM   #28
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I think ALL of you would be shocked to learn just how many people around you every day are carrying concealed, both legally and illegally. Rest your minds if you're nervous about it. Like I stated earlier, Oregon has NEVER had an accident or questionable shooting by a licesnced concealed shooter. NEVER. And one in twenty adults here have permits

My right to protect my family comes first. With all the scum in the world being similarly armed, it stands to reason that some responsible people should be as well. I've been in 3 very touchy situations in the last 10 years, and was damn glad I was armed in all three.

The first, I was in a porta-potty at a roadside campsite on a long road trip. I took the 4 year old LIlpooky to the bathroom. A car had followed us down off the road, so I left my wife with a .380 in the truck. She actually had to show them the .380 while sitting in the truck. They were approaching the truck from two sides very slowly, while I was out of sight. There wasn't another soul around for 20 miles.

The second, I was in a Taco Bell Drivethru at 11pm. A lowrider in front of me. The driver was pissed that my headlights (from my STOCK height Z71) were blinding him because he was stupid enough to lower his car. He got out of his car with a large knife, came to my window and started yelling and screaming. I remained calm, and carefully cocked my 44 Magnum I had pulled from under my seat. He never saw it, I never said a word to him, but he heard the pistol cocking. He wisely decided to go back to his car. I drove around for 30 minutes to clear my tail before possibly leading him back to my home and family.

The third was a near showdown in a mall between 2 gangs. My wife and I, and both kids were simply walking though the mall when it went down. We were both armed. Me with my .45, her with her .380, and it was a close call. We both had one hand on a pistol, and a kid in the other, and managed to get out of the way to safety. No shots were fired, but it very well could have ended that way. At least 3 of the gangmembers were carrying (they have NO clue how to properly conceal).
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Old 06-28-2004, 04:53 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MOS95B
I fail too see why any non-Military/Law Enforcememnt person show own a handgun.
What did you mean by this? I'm just wondering not debating your view.

For fun though:

Top 10 reasons why some men favor handguns over women

#10 You can trade an old 44 for a new 22.

#9 You can keep one handgun at home, and have another for when you're on
the road.

#8 If you admire a friend'* handgun, and tell him so, he will probably
let you try it out a few times.

#7 Your primary handgun doesn't mind if you keep another handgun for a
back up.

#6 Your handgun will stay with you even if you run out of ammo.

#5 A handgun doesn't take up a lot of closet space.

#4 Handguns function normally every day of the month.

#3 A handgun doesn't ask, "Do these new grips make me look fat?"

#2 A handgun doesn't mind if you go to sleep after you use it.

And the number one reason a handgun is favored over a woman!

#1 You can buy a silencer for a handgun
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Old 06-29-2004, 10:51 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willwren
And one in twenty adults here have permits
You are right, I had no freaking clue it was that high. I know that is just for your state, but I think it would probably be safe to say that AT LEAST 1/30 carry over here. And that is still way more than I thought.

I'm a fan of listening to police scanners ( ) and when cops run people, very very rarely do I ever hear that they have a CCW permit. That probably just goes to show that people that carry have a certain amount of maturity in all situations than the common person.
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