BMW takes a shot to the grill (G8 Commercial) - Page 3 - GM Forum - Buick, Cadillac, Chev, Olds, GMC & Pontiac chat


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Old 04-01-2008, 09:42 AM   #21
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What I've seen is that American cars have in the recent past been kind of blocky while European cars have had at least a bit more style. Look at Alfa Romeo, Jaguar, and some others from the 80s to see some nice lines. Look at the 80s Bonnevilles - though they're nice to us, they're just big sedans by GM before some style kicked in. I think the 92-99 Bonnevilles have European car lines, and the 00+ especially. The newest Corvette looks like an old Elise or so. The 300C looks like a Bentley.

I would like to see American cars that are stylish and don't have to be compared to European cars. I think American car designers are looking towards Europe for design inspiration, and that'* too bad since there'* plenty of creativity to be drawn from over here. Time and time again, radical American concept cars turn out to be reduced to within-the-times European styling.

The G8 is nice, but it'* not American. Holden had the design before Pontiac, anyway. The Bonneville, regardless of its slight European styling touch (by my opinion), is a really good example of a modern American car. It has interior room, power, and no sewing machine farting noise when fitted with an aftermarket muffler. The Bonneville and Grand Prix were cut out of the Pontiac line for the G8.

All the new cars seem to be going towards the small car European trend. They're all shrinking and looking alike. 6L V8? What? Bring out the 9+L V8! Yes! I recently saw a '55 Bel Air. That'* some good stuff! I like how the Challenger looks nice and modern while having a lot of that good old BAM from the old style. The new Camaro is all right, probably really nice but I can't look past the oversized wheels. If the Mustang weren't such a Ferd, the newest redesign wouldn't make a bad looking car at all.

The G8 looks like a BMW in most ways. I think it'* more like a Saab trying to be a BMW, but oh well. For all those who think the G8 is better because it'* cheaper and/or it can get to 60mph more quickly, please stay back. People who have driven a BMW understand that it'* not how much a car costs or how quickly it gets up to speed. The bottom line is that you're driving a BMW!!!

I have the same sentiments, if not more, for Bonnevilles. Don't worry, guys. I hate the BMWs' back seats. Have those been improved? They used to be so stiff, like wood benches! Aside from the back seat, everything in a BMW is just there. It'* right there for you to use. There'* not much room to move around, and you just sit and drive or ride. You vill seet und you vill verk vis ze macheen! The Bonneville has stuff all over the place, and it'* big, so it feels more like home than a solely pragmatic person'* car.

I'm very disappointed with the move towards said pragmatic person type cars. The Bonneville is the way to go IMO, but if you need a BMW, Saab, or so, then go for that size of a car. It'* pollution of the market for Pontiac to release another such car. I'd like to go so far as to say that the G8 is un-American! I unfoundedly feel that way because I'm an immigrant! Buahahahahahaha! Feel my wrath!
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Old 04-01-2008, 09:58 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RJGill84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim W
Pretty decent (yet amateur) pot-shot at BMW. If I had the money, I'd still take a 550i or M5 over a G8.

Don't get me wrong the G8 is still nice, but its not a BMW. The continual comparisions to the German lux sedans and the G8 baffles me.
I definitely would NOT take a 550i over a G8. You say the constant comparison between the G8 and BMWs baffles you. Why? The car, first of all, LOOKS alot like a BMW both outside and inside. The inside of the G8 is a near clone of last gen BMW 5 Series, particularly the dashboard. That starts people comparing. People were comparing the looks of the 300C with BENTLEYS, now THATS a much more unlikely comparison.

So now that the G8 LOOKS very BMW, it also PERFORMS very BMW. In fact, it OUTPERFORMS BMW. At half the price. NO BRAINER. Very obvious to me why they're compared. To me they're equally as luxurious as well. Quality materials, excellent fit and finish, advanced electronics, outstanding chassis, great engines. Whats the G8 lacking? The ridiculous iDrive - and thats OK with me.

I challenge someone to show me something substantive about how the G8 lacks compared to the 5 series. It doesn't have super expensive leather or burled walnut? Pshh..thats cool with me. The 5 series sure as H*** doesn't have $25,000 worth of greatness over the G8. And THAT is why I would buy a G8 over a 5 Series.
Disagree 100%.

The G8 does not look like the previous BMW 5, nor does it look like the new Bangle 5. It looks like what it is...a Holden.

The 300 tries so hard to LOOK like a Bentley and fails wonderfully, stupid oversized grille and disproportionate windows. Its a E-Class chassis that went screwy from there.

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To me they're equally as luxurious as well. Quality materials, excellent fit and finish, advanced electronics, outstanding chassis, great engines. Whats the G8 lacking?
What, I doubt it? A coworker of mine has a 550i and until I sit in a G8 and see what'* what, I don't believe you. Pontiac wouldn't be charging what they are if the interior environment is comparable to that of the 5.

The G8 will not out perform a BMW, it has a similar suspension set up, hence the feeling, but it ends there.

The high end 5'* have $25 000 more greatness, hence the comparisions are pointless.
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Old 04-01-2008, 10:07 AM   #23
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Now that I've said what I feel. Let me give the G8 credit, because credit is due. The market has asked for a performance oriented mid-level sedan with some balls. They've done that, and I appreciate it. In fact, I would find myself happy in a G8.

However. Compare the car to its competitive equal, like that comparo with the Charger R/T. Leave BMW to the big boys (ie Cadillac...they want to compare the M5 to the new CTS-V due out next year. Now THAT is a comparision).
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Old 04-01-2008, 10:47 AM   #24
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I have to agree with that last statement, Jim.
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Old 04-01-2008, 12:17 PM   #25
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The G8'* "advanced" electronics include heated front seats and a screen that integrates radio and HVAC controls. And it ends there. Hell, you only get map lights if you get a sunroof too. No autodim mirror, no heated outside mirrors, no HUD... you gotta enter some "engineering mode" that they don't tell you about to see how many miles you have till empty. Chassis and performance numbers are similar to a mid-upper range 5 series, but not quite a new M5. Compare it to an M5 you could buy for the same money (used and a couuple years old) and the G8 wins, IIRC.
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Old 04-01-2008, 03:03 PM   #26
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I wasn't really referring to gee-whiz gimcrackery stuff like "miles to empty" or idiotic iDrive when I mentioned advanced electronics. I was referring to the GM LAN system and other advanced electronics such as StabiliTrak, OnStar, etc.

Jim, I think the front end of the G8 is very last gen BMW. Rear end, I agree - very different. I will show you some interior shots that I have later on. The interior of the G8, specifically the dashboard SHAPE is ridiculously similar. Compare the passenger side of the dash in both cars.

I'm by no means a Euro-hater. My grandfather has an S600 that I would take over damn near anything...and my grandma drives a Continental Flying Spur...$180,000. But for what the G8 provides, I certainly cannot justify spending an additional 25k just to say "I've got a Bimmer" at the country club and get some better cowhide on the seats. The vehicles are far too comparable, speaking strictly on a cost-benefit analysis basis. Work out the cost-benefit and the G8 wins clearly. Now, if we're talking about cachet, class, and prestige - the G8 loses miserably. The G8 provides to the driver everything that the 5 series does, speaking in a raw sense in terms of what actually matters. The 5 Series provides the stuff that doesn't TRULY matter like cachet, prestige, and bragging rights.

Not to mention the fact that BMW ranks NOWHERE in J.D. Power Initial Quality Rankings. GM has two spots on the list, Pontiac Grand Prix for Best Full Size, and Monte Carlo for Best Midsize Sport. In Luxury Midsize even VOLVO (Ford) bested BMW, which didn't rank AT ALL. Full Size Luxury? BMW didn't make an appearance either, bested by Mercedes, Lexus, and Audi.

What about long term dependability? JD Power'* Long Term Dependability ranks the Cadillac DeVille AND Lincoln Towncar above the BMW 7-Series, which scored LOWEST. Since we're talking about the interior of the G8 being subpar, it'* interesting to note that the Cadillac DeVille and Towncar scored ABOVE the 7-Series in interior and body dependability, DITTO for the Northstar engine vs. the BMW engine. Oh look - SAME for Features and Accessories - spanked by Lincoln and Caddy. Midsize Luxury? The Cadillac Seville SPANKS the BMW 5-Series, particularly in Powertrain, and the Lincoln LS ties it. Ummm..why'* BMW better again? I see no need to continue.

I can't wait to see the rankings when GMs current gen vehicles start hitting. Again, I reiterate...the BMW is simply NOT worth the $25,000 premium. Not with pathetic rankings like that. And it'* not just J.D. Power - these rankings are also consistent with Consumer Reports and others. BMW is nothing but a name, with not much to back it up. Proofs in the pudding. Can't argue with proven statistics.

Like I said before: I challenge someone to show me something substantive about how the G8 lacks compared to the 5 series, other than the baseless, pointless "because it'* a BMW" line. BMW'* perceived greatness is simply that; PERCEPTION. And false ones at that. The numbers don't back it up.

http://www.jdpower.com/autos/ratings...gs-by-category
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine...9/b3861091.htm
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Old 04-01-2008, 03:30 PM   #27
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Thats all well and good. BMW misses the mark with JD Power, I don't care. Comparing a G8 and a top of the line 5 series or M5 is silly. I don't need to scour the web to justify why I feel that way.

The G8 has yet to establish itself in anyway, until I see a G8 handily smack a 550 or M5 around, I stand by my opinion. If this was such a big deal, we'd be comparing the Commodore to the 5 series and I've yet to see that.
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Old 04-01-2008, 03:38 PM   #28
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My old BMW will hand its a$$ to the G8. I was impressed when I drove the g8 GT but its no BMW as far as handling or quality.
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Old 04-01-2008, 04:04 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim W
Thats all well and good. BMW misses the mark with JD Power, I don't care. Comparing a G8 and a top of the line 5 series or M5 is silly. I don't need to scour the web to justify why I feel that way.

The G8 has yet to establish itself in anyway, until I see a G8 handily smack a 550 or M5 around, I stand by my opinion. If this was such a big deal, we'd be comparing the Commodore to the 5 series and I've yet to see that.
I dont think a G8 will ever smack down a M5.
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Old 04-01-2008, 04:07 PM   #30
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Shadow, I don't understand how you can mention quality when BMW'* quality consistently ranks at the bottom. Below Cadillac, Buick, Volvo, and even Ferd'* Lincoln. Seems like denial to me.

Jim - you're right, the G8 hasn't proven itself yet. But based on the previous rankings shown by GM in terms of quality, and the fact that they're moving upwards, and BMW is in fact moving downwards, one can surmise that the G8 will be very highly ranked in terms of quality. Certainly above BMW, as the rest of GM currently is.

And...as has been shown many times, in both Motor Trend and Car and Driver the G8 equals the BMW 5. In the April 2007 issue of Motor Trend, reviewer Matt Stone wrote, "If the experience recalls any other car, it'* the previous-generation BMW M5, which also had a six-speed stick, 400 horses, and a wonderfully communicative chassis." Automobile Magazine also compares the G8 to the current-generation 5-Series. Sam Smith writes, "...by the numbers and on American roads the 5-Series and the G8 are equals."

Let me reiterate: Sam Smith writes, "...by the numbers and on American roads the 5-Series and the G8 are equals." So, Jim and Vince, that should suffice for your "until I see a G8 handily smack a 550 or M5 around, I stand by my opinion". BMW gets beaten in quality by GM, and equaled in performance. This is proven. How is this an argument?

I think the superiority you guys are associating with BMW is more mental perception than anything actually substantive.
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