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Old 03-04-2004, 03:32 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by repinS
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Originally Posted by Custom88
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Originally Posted by SSsuperchargedEi
we get 240-260hp out of an */c 3800... nissan can do that with .3L less and no blower... pushrods
horsepower is meaningless when you don't have any torque...
... the V6 Altima has 246lb-ft, even more if you're looking at the 350Z, G35, or Maxima.

I myself find GM interiors to be quite el-cheapo, especially on my car - I have no problems with plastic, but c'mon, when I poke my fake wood, it *squeaks*, and the panel gaps are A$$.

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Who needs DOHC, it'* more parasitic drag on an engine.
Isn't a supercharger parasitic drag? Just how is DOHC drag on a motor? It'* more efficient in power, though the torque curve is shifted to higher RPM - which still doesn't make a car torqueless.

I personally just don't see the current Bonneville as something that'* feasible for its price. Sure, it'* a kickass car - don't get me wrong - but I think I'll be persuaded away from a GM dealer if I shopped around.

Quote:
Mash the loud pedal in any American car, (not a geo, that'* a corolla copy) and then mash the same pedal in a japanese car. You get NO TORQUE at all in the japanese car. (save extreme examples).
A '94 Camry V6 pulls harder than my car

To each his own, I guess.
My stock 2000 ssei had 280 lbs ft torque and with a few tweaks for around $100 it'* up to around 325 or so(3.5 pulley and K&N air filter). My horse is around 260-265HP. Not bad IMHO. It'* not the fastest, but throw in the nice luxury feel to it and I think it'* a nice car all around. It won't set records either way, but is a good all around vehicle with the best of both worlds so to speak. I can't speak for the real early Bonnevilles like you have in your signature, though. Things are a lot better since '91. Not to be insulting but have you driven and really gotten to know the latter models personally 2000+ ssei?

I agree that they can be a bit flamboyant on the plastic trim though!
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Old 03-04-2004, 04:17 PM   #32
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That... and have you ever worked on a Nissan? It ain't a walk in the park....
thats what 10-year/100k mile warrenties are for...
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Old 03-04-2004, 07:35 PM   #33
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As far as I know, Nissan doesn't have a warranty that good... yet - Hyundai, Kia, etc have that only.

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Not to be insulting but have you driven and really gotten to know the latter models personally 2000+ ssei?
Like I said, they're kickass cars, but I think I might be persuaded away from a Bonneville if I shopped around. Note how I don't comment on how the car steers, brakes or handles, etc, I'm 16, I don't drive The Camry does have more grunt though, it gives more "pin-you-in-the-seat" power.
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Old 03-04-2004, 08:41 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by BonneMeMN

RWD revolution!??! Cmon!! GM is one of the biggest people!!!

: Who needs DOHC, it'* more parasitic drag on an engine. I don't want a second "hot" cam to kick in @ 4000 RPM, i want power all the time, off the light, on the freeway.

Most European cars are cool though
well what about the 2.4 twin cam and the 3.4 twin cam (DOHC) GM doesnt have many RWD cars i think the have 2?? and as far as a DOHC i feel hondas and etc have better researched this making a better DOHC than any other auto manufactor

I LOVE MY BONNE BUT I LOVED MY ACCORD TO SO I CAN PICK AND CHOOSE
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Old 03-04-2004, 08:45 PM   #35
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I think GM is finally realizing the interior issues....take a look at the future models and see less cutouts and gaps, better plastics and materials, and less squeaks and rattles. They are getting there.

Look at the GTO, I think that interior is great looking and is probably decent materials-wise too.
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Old 03-04-2004, 08:46 PM   #36
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...and I agree about the 3800. Its a hell of a motor, and no one should be putting it down. How many motors do you know out there that can do such high mileage like the 3800 can? They are far and few between in the automotive world.
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Old 03-04-2004, 08:48 PM   #37
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nobody is bashing the 3800 but there are many other motors that last a hell of alot longer
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Old 03-04-2004, 09:07 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by joe
nobody is bashing the 3800 but there are many other motors that last a hell of alot longer
Yes, but do those engines offer the same kind of power? I know Hondas and Toyotas have good powertrains, but I would rather have a car with some grunt to it.
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Old 03-04-2004, 09:07 PM   #39
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if the 3800 wasn't so prone to upper intake failure, it would probably be a higher rated engine. But I'm sure once you take a real DOHC out for a cruise and still feel pull at 6000rpm, it may be appreciated as much as the cast iron pushrod that 3800 owner continue to love.


I did a general search on Google...lookie what I found for best engines of 1995 (for ***** and giggles)

Quote:
Those scores are what set our "Top 10" engines apart from the rest of the nominees. Perhaps reflecting current market trends, note that six of the Top 10 are 6-cyl. engines.

Along the best sixes -- both vee and inline -- you'll find two mighty V-8s and even a couple of surprisingly potent fours, making the Best Engines of 1995 what we believe to be an eclectic but representative group.

Top 10 Winners

BMW AG: 4L DOHC V-8 BMW AG: 3L DOHC I-6 Ford Motor Co.: "Duratec" 2.5L DOHC V-6 General Motors Corp.: 3800 Series II 3.8L V-6 General Motors Corp.: "Northstar" 4.6L DOHC V-8 Honda Motor Co. Ltd.: VTEC 2.2L DOHC I-4 Mazda Motor Corp.: Miller-cycle 2.3L DOHC V-6 Nissan Motor Co. Ltd.: "VQ" 3L DOHC V-6 Saab Automobile AB: "LPT" 2.3L DOHC I-4 Volkswagen AG: VR6 2.8L SOHC V-6

The Rest of the Nominees

Chrysler Corp.: 8L V-10 (Ram) Chrysler Corp.: 2L DOHC I-4 Chrysler Corp.: 5.9L OHV turbodiesel Ford Motor Co.: 2L Zetec DOHC I-4 Ford Motor Co.: 3L DOHC V-6 (SHO) Ford Motor Co.: 4.6L DOHC V-8 General Motors Corp: 2.3L DOHC I-4 (Quad 4) General Motors Corp: 5.7L V-8 (LT-1) Honda Motor Co. Ltd.: 1.6L DOHC I-4 (VTEC) Nissan Motor Co. Ltd.: 4.5L DOHC V-8 Mitsubishi Motors Corp.: 3L DOHC twin-turbocharged V-6 Mercedes-Benz AG: 3L DOHC I-6 (diesel) Mazda Motor Corp.: 2.5: DOHC V-6 Mazda Motor Corp.: 654 x 2 cc twin-turbocharged rotary Saab Automobile AB: 2.3L DOHC turbocharged I-4 (Aero) Toyota Motor Corp.: 3L DOHC twin-turbocharged I-6 Toyota Motor Corp.: 3L DOHC I-6 (GS300) Toyota Motor Corp.: 3L DOHC V-6 AB Volvo: 2.3L turbocharged I-5

http://waw.wardsauto.com/ar/auto_best_engines_5/

I'm on a roll

1996

Top of the list 3.8L 3800

Quote:
3800 Series II V-6

There must be something special about an engine whose basic design has been employed since 1962 -- the year in which what has become General Motors Corp.'* 3800 Series II V-6 first saw the light of day.

Don Miles, chief engineer for the Series II and supercharged Series II says it'* safe to assume the 3800 Series II will be around into the next century. That'* a tribute to the inherent quality of the design, Mr. Miles believes, because most engines have a useful life of about 10 years "before there'* nothing more that can be done."

As we noted when the 3800 Series II earned a place on last year'* inaugural Best Engines list, much work has been done to reduce the 3800'* reciprocating mass and frictional losses. The resulting engineering -- especially the reduction of combustion chamber and port variation -- imparted the dual benefit of reducing emissions and increasing fuel economy.

For 1996, the normally aspirated Series II is fitted to the Camaro/Firebird F cars, its first longitudinally mounted application. Besides the Buick LeSabre in which Ward'* tested it, the 3800 Series II is offered in a variety of Buick and Oldsmobile Div. models. "We've got a versatile engine with a good balance of values, which makes it an excellent performer as both a luxury-car and sports-car engine," boasts Mr. Miles, who believes the 3800'* versatility is one of its key features.

For this year'* supercharged 3800 Series II, engineers added an extension to the Eaton-made unit that increases its displacement from 60 cu. ins. (1L) to 90 cu. ins. (1.5L). The increased size allows the supercharger to operate at somewhat lower speeds -- less rpm means cooler running -- which improves reliability. To add to the fun, the supercharged 3800 has been blessed with an additional 600 rpm of usable engine speed.

Mr. Miles says the most important part of the performance envelope, for normal drivers, is the 50- to 80-mph (30- to 50-km/h) passing ability. He claims the 1996 supercharged Series II can accelerate a vehicle from 50 mph to 80 mph in 8.7 seconds; the same run required 14.5 seconds in 1985. Fuel economy, meanwhile, also is dramatically improved over that of a decade ago.

It is the 3800 Series II'* easy-going performance and effortless power delivery that once again won our test panel'* votes. The much-maligned overhead-valve design provides inspired low- and midrange torque and deliciously instantaneous throttle response. Mr. Miles claims there'* more power to be found in the 3800'* iron lungs -- always welcome, but the 3800 Series II already is the best pushrod engine around.

Following a hard charge with the supercharged Series II, one Ward'* tester penned the opinion of us all: "After driving the supercharged 3800 Series II, who really needs a V-8?"

Northstar 4.6L V-8

The Northstar 4.6L DOHC V-8, making its second consecutive appearance on the Ward'* Best Engines list, has become symbolic of the engineering muscle GM brings to bear when it'* of a mind to do so. The Northstar remains a state-of-the-art engine design and the most powerful engine available in a domestic luxury car.

Major service intervals of 100,000 miles (161,000 km) are augmented for 1996 with the addition of GM'* new Dex-Cool coolant, which the automaker says is also good for 100,000 miles. In fact, the Northstar sometimes doesn't need Dex-Cool at all: one of the engine'* most intriguing design features is its "limp home" mode that converts some of the cylinders to air pumps, keeping the all-aluminum Northstar cool enough to drive if all coolant is lost.

Sam Winegarden, Northstar chief engineer, says not much has been needed to keep the Northstar updated. "We went from a speed-density engine control system to a mass-airflow system (for 1996). This gives us refinement in the emissions-control and fuel-economy system," he says. The engine exhaust note also has been slightly retuned for 1996, and the Northstar'* availability has been extended to the standard DeVille -- meaning every front-drive Cadillac now enjoys a Northstar powertrain.

The only driveability aspect that puts a slight hitch in the Northstar'* otherwise outstanding performance is a slightly cranky idle quality and what some editors believe is an annoying amount of torque steer when the tractive force of 300 hp tries to fight its way through the front wheels. Wheelspin itself is never a problem, of course, thanks to the Northstar'* slick and quick integrated traction control.

Members of the 1996 Best Engines panel were once again seduced by the Northstar'* stunning power and generously broad torque curve. "Highway passing power is phenomenal," notes one staffer. "The STS hammers past slowpokes as if they're moving backwards. And nothing can stay with it if you want to keep your foot down."

Mr. Winegarden says the Northstar will continue as GM'* "flagship" engine. "We're going to refine it, make the small, subtle changes that'll improve the already exceptional NVH, reliability and fuel economy." We also can look forward to a V-6 version of the Northstar to debut in 1997.
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Old 03-04-2004, 09:08 PM   #40
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2004

Quote:
The Ward'* 10 Best Engines for 2004: (Engine and tested vehicle) Audi AG 4.2L DOHC V-8 (S4)
BMW AG 3.2L DOHC I-6 (M3)
DaimlerChrysler AG 5.7L Hemi Magnum OHV V-8 (Dodge Ram)
DaimlerChrysler AG 5.9L Cummins 600 OHV I-6 turbodiesel (Dodge Ram Heavy Duty)
Fuji Heavy Industries Ltd. Subaru 2.5L DOHC turbocharged H-4 (Subaru WRX STi)
General Motors Corp. Vortec 4.2L DOHC I-6 (GMC Envoy)
Honda Motor Co. Ltd. 3L DOHC V-6 (Accord Coupe)
Mazda Motor Corp. 1.3L Renesis rotary (RX-
Nissan Motor Co. Ltd. 3.5L DOHC V-6 (Infiniti G35)
Toyota Motor Corp. 1.5L DOHC I-4 Hybrid (Prius)
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