Ok, so we have the Bonneville GXP for 2004 model year, and Pontiac has launched a redesigned GP for '04 MY. Any thoughts on when they will be putting out a redesigned Bonneville? Somewhere around 05-06?

Also, he Series III 3800 - I see the differences between the SC versions (20 more HP and more torque, forget the amt... can drink 87 octane too), but the #* on the N/A version are the same. Anyone know the main changes since the Series III is ONLY on the GP for the 2004 MY?

-Nick

The only thing I have heard is it is going to have Electronic Throttle Control. So there isn't going to be a cable running from the gas pedal to the engine. It will now be when you step on the gas it will have a computer with a servo or some sort of device to give the engine gas. So the computer controls the trottle not the pedal. The only thing they did to the SC'd engine is revamped the SC'r it puts out more boost and keeps the SC'r the same temp as the older model.

As far as I know other then what parallelcircuits stated is that the */C on the new Series III is a Eaton M120 instead of the series II M90.. it'* basically a larger */C and they supposedly ported the intake better..

I'm glad U brought this up about the gxp bonne, it seems the bonneville might be make'n it'* way out of the pontiac lineup,(damn first the Aroura now this?) I hope they will continue to make them but the interest for them isn't that high, how many people would really pay 40k for a ponitac? (C'mon it'* not a Buick or Cadillac) if u notice all other pontiacs are aimed for younger people thats why U never see a bonne on t.v. the bonneville isn't as affordable to lets say a collage student or single parent as a GrandAm, Vibe, or sunfire, these cars even give off a younger feel. Me I love the bonne cause it makes me look a lil older, sales are going good in every model except the bonneville (maybe it'* not doing as well as they hoped?) this info I got from this

http://auto.consumerguide.com/auto/u...fm/id/2092.htm

I don't think Pontiac is really marketing the Bonneville to the right crowd. Pontiac, yes, is considered to be the "sporty" arm of GM. However, the people that have the $$ to spend on a larger (luxury) car TEND to be older, and therefore appreciate the softer ride of the LeSabre/Park Avenue (for example). That thing just glides over EVERYTHING!! (And I hate it.)

Bonneville'* market can be filled by Grand Prix - a larger family-style car that can move, very much similar in size and features to the Bonneville.

In the past, Pontiac was trying to be the North American version of BMW, with the GP representing the 3-series and the Bonneville representing the 5-series. Now, really - who would confuse the two.

Don't get me wrong - I love my Bonneville and, given the chance (read: money), I would happily purchase another one. However, there are many other cars that will meet my needs. Here'* my current list of cars that I would consider buying:

Pontiac Bonneville SLE (SSEi would be nice, but cant justifiy the extra $$ for purchase and operation)
Pontiac Grand Prix GT2 (GTP comp G would be nice, but same as above...)
Saab 9-3 Linear or Vector (pricey but DAMN nice!)
Hyundai Santa Fe (dad bought one, and am extremely impressed)
Chevrolet Monte Carlo SS
Oldsmobile Intrigue
Volkswagen Passat (though with every passing negative experience in the news, preference for this car is falling fast...)

These fulfill my reqs: decent size car (or "vehicle" in the SF'* case...), safe, and not too outrageously priced (except for the Saab). Note that, aside from the SF, Bonneville is the odd one out.

So, my generation (i'm 21) won't think to buy the Bonneville. Generation older than me wants minivans. Next, mid-life crisis people that buy the Porsches (can't wait for that!). Finally, old men wanting a land yacht like the DeVille, etc. Bonneville doesn't have a real segment to appeal to aside from its loyal following.

(Sorry for the impromptu lesson in market segmentation, but yeah....)

As far as I am concerned, there is not going to be a Bonneville GXP in 2004. It was merely a concept car that GM has abandoned. In fact, there is no longer going to be a Bonneville SSEi in 2004. The last year for the SSEi is 2003. GM is not making enough money off of the SSEi'*. However, the rental car companies love the SE'* so GM is going to keep making those for their continued "enjoyment."

It is still an M90. Eaton redesigned the M90, so it is still the M90, it is just more efficient.

On the Supercharged version the horsepower is up 20, but the torque is the same. The way they got the horsepower up is eaton redesigned the M90, so they use the new M90 which is more effiecient, so they can now run 9.5psi instead of 7psi without more knock. This also GREATLY helps in the mod department. There is a guy with an '04 on ClubGP, with very few mods, that is running a 3.0" pulley with no problems and very little knock. It is a great blower.

For the N/A the difference is the throttle control, and there is a bunch of other little safety crap GM put in, but they did enough to change the engine codes. The N/A is now a L26, and the Supercharged one is now I believe an L34.


A lot of people would have no problem paying 40k for a Bonneville, because if you have ever compared a Cadillac Seville STS to a Pontiac Bonneville SSEi, you will see it is basically the same car, except the cadillac has a V8, a lot more electronics, and all of the little luxury touches they put in. But basically a SSEi is just a lower powered STS that goes for 15-20k LESS. And, when the 2000 Bonnevilles came out there were quite a few commercials for them, like the GP commercials now. They are not trying as hard with the advertising now, because the model has been out for almost 4 years now, so there isn't anything new. The GP is a brand new model, so they are advertising it a lot. And the SSEi is aimed towards older buyers, like the kind of buyers that would look at a Seville, it was never aimed towards younger drivers like the rest of the Pontiac line up.