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Old 02-19-2006, 11:08 PM   #11
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I don't know where you got that 16.6 man, but every car mag rated them @ 15.5ish. You were looking at an SE.
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Old 02-19-2006, 11:36 PM   #12
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The 16.60 came from the 2002 Pontiac Bonneville dealer brochure that I have.I collect these and have one for every year Pontiac since 1958.It was for a SSEI also and not an SE.Im not saying it is right,bu its what they put in the Brochure,but why would they underrate it if their trying to sell the car?The tests might have been run by some independant or impartial party or a magazine.The 300 M ran a 17.10,the Lexus GS 300 ran a 17.02 and the Lincoln LS V6 ran a 18.09.I wish I had a camera and I could posts this.
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Old 02-20-2006, 12:18 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cballweg
The 16.60 came from the 2002 Pontiac Bonneville dealer brochure that I have.I collect these and have one for every year Pontiac since 1958.It was for a SSEI also and not an SE.Im not saying it is right,bu its what they put in the Brochure,but why would they underrate it if their trying to sell the car?The tests might have been run by some independant or impartial party or a magazine.The 300 M ran a 17.10,the Lexus GS 300 ran a 17.02 and the Lincoln LS V6 ran a 18.09.I wish I had a camera and I could posts this.
Was probably in like 120* temps at 5000ft. if those cars ran those times!
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Old 02-20-2006, 12:20 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cballweg
The 16.60 came from the 2002 Pontiac Bonneville dealer brochure that I have.I collect these and have one for every year Pontiac since 1958.It was for a SSEI also and not an SE.Im not saying it is right,bu its what they put in the Brochure,but why would they underrate it if their trying to sell the car?The tests might have been run by some independant or impartial party or a magazine.The 300 M ran a 17.10,the Lexus GS 300 ran a 17.02 and the Lincoln LS V6 ran a 18.09.I wish I had a camera and I could posts this.
I have the exact same brochure
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Old 02-20-2006, 02:46 AM   #15
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Facts are facts in the real world. In the real world, there'* no way a stock GXP can take a stock SSEi on the dragstrip.

The GXP'* (3 so far that we know of) at the dragstrip are posting much lower numbers than expected. The GXP'* I've driven back that up.

If you want a basis for comparison, let'* get some more GXP'* on the track this year.
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Old 02-20-2006, 01:23 PM   #16
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I believe the GXP'* are faster never driven an Bonn GXP but have driven a 2004 Seville SLS and a 2001 Bonn SSEi in 2001 when I was looking for my Impala. I had no intention of getting an SSEi or SLE, but then I might have gotten an SE, even those were to pricey for me then. The GXP should be faster, I know that is stock. But with a few mods the SSEi owns all. I know I will prolly get some SSEi owners mad fact of the matter is 35 more hp 20 lbft. of tq and a 2.93:1 vs. a 3.7:1 the GXP still wins. I don't care if revving it to 6K is what you have to do right off the line the SSEi has some advantage after 40mph the GXP blows it off. As far as top end the GXP has 141 in it and the SSEi only has 129. I mean guys give it up something **stock at least, stock agianst stock** beats the SSEi, if you wanna be so fast make way with the dough and get one lol. Nothing agianst SSEi'* but stock on stock the GXP does win. I will say this if I could find an 03 SSEi cheap with milage I liked and NO MOONROOF I might have to get it, but uhh still rather have a white gold 04-05 GXP. *Maybe in 5 years* Anyone want a mint **waxed 10 times** 2005 Bonneville SLE with 8300 miles? J/K no way I am selling my baby I have waited 15 years to get then agian, my son wants it lol. Gee I wonder why?
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Old 02-20-2006, 02:46 PM   #17
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Quote:
Nothing agianst SSEi'* but stock on stock the GXP does win
Ok, let'* tear this apart once and for all. Published numbers are bogus. Let'* get some TRACK data. Stock SSEi'* have run as quick as 14.7/14.8 BONE stock with high miles.

Now a GXP:
Quote:
1/4 Mile ET: 15.400
1/4 Mile MPH: 91.000
from http://www.dragtimes.com/Pontiac-Bon...slip-3863.html

From Popular Mechanics:
http://www.popularmechanics.com/auto...age=4&c=y/
Quote:
1/4-MILE:1 15.07 sec. @ 91.93 mph 15.42 sec. @ 91.53 mph
Hell, my 95 Beat that! The day after I bought it entirely untuned.

Quote:
I have seen 2 run at the tracks, low 15'* for both.
(Rogue)

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by blacksedan
I ran mine at the local track (KCIR) June 30 with only a few hundred miles on the odo. All times were 15.52 to 15.62 @ 89-90 mph. Short times were high 2.3'* with or without TC engaged with very little wheelspin.

KCIR is notorious for being .2 to .3 slower than your "average" track. I moved to the GXP from a moderately modded GTP -- 13.25 @ 106 mph , 2.0x 60 ft times -- TOG'*, rockers, PCM, 3.1 pulley, etc..... I've logged well over 100 1/4-mile passes in a FWD sedan, so I feel pretty confident in my launch technique.

I will unplug the WSS next time out and see what I get. I'm betting the torque management in the PCM is ridiculous. I hope INTENSE or one of the PCM programmers will get something out to us soon!!
So the hard numbers we have:
Rogue saw TWO at the track run low 15'*.
One posted above ran 15.4
One member here ran 15.52

That'* 5 GXP'* in the mid-low 15'*. Show me some numbers to prove otherwise. SSEi'* are quicker, BONE stock. And that includes 94/95 L67'*.
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Old 02-20-2006, 04:55 PM   #18
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I want to through some thougts out here to everyone...

In a dead heat race between an 00-03 SSEi and a 04-05 GXP totally stock for stock you may have decent race between the two... And yes the limiter will allow the GXP to win stock for stock if it were an all out speed race...

If the cars both had the speed limiters removed what would happen then? 2.93 Gears as compared to 3.71 Gears ?

Now lets look at some diffrences between the 4T65-E and the 4T80-E.... Its simple, the 4T80-e is designed for more abuse, but its also a larger trans, and takes more power to turn that trans as well...

The 65-E weighs less and takes less power to turn as compared to the 80-E... We'll make the comparision diffrence something like the diffrence between the THM350 and the THM400... The 400 is a better trans but depending on what you are doing it may not be worth the loss in power...

When we look at the 4.6 N*, it was designed with higher end power in mind... Double Over Head Cam Smasher... The engine saw its first year in 92 ... Its changed some, But that was to correct for some issues that GM was trying to cure... and its still attached to the 4T80-E...

The 3800 II came out in 95 as a totall and complete redesign of the 3800 Vin C and L engines... The engine was designed to leave more power to propell the car instead of moving the reciprocating Mass... Anyone that has messed with a 3800 series I knows the crank in the C and L engines are quite beefy and the Rods were long... Lost some power trying to move that weight... The improvements left more power to propell the car, and emissions were again improved...

We can be sure the Caddy 4.6 and 4.0 had and still has plenty of technology behind it.. I do love the sound of a V8, there is just a part of the Chevy guy in mt that loves a V8 growl...

I respect both engines for what they are... Both good for diffrent reasons...

I'm not pleased with the arguements that have gone around with the GXP vs SSEi or vice versa... These are both very nice cars, and should be treated as such...

Now my personal Tastes would leave me buying an SSEi as opposed to the N*... I know a lot about the buick engines, and parts are more than plenty... And can be modded to H*** and back... I'm sure the N* would be fun to mod as well... But it would seem to me the price to mod would go up..


I would love to see some dyno pulls of the GXP Bonneville... I would love to know what the GXP is putting down both at the tires and at the crank in terms of Tq and HP...

We already do know that Bone stock 3800 II SC'* in the past have put down 260 hp and 320-330 ft lbs at the crank, the tq rating from the factory is 280 at the crank... We all also know these engines are torque managed by the PCM...

Are there any PCM'* for the N*, and what kind of torque management do they have beeing attached to the beefier 4T80-E?

For a long time there are quite a few of us that Feel GM under rated a lot of their engines.. The 3800 II SC is sheer proof of that.. Just about all of these engines will make more torque Bone stock than what GM rated them for...

In the L27'* there was a change so we believe... At one point the Vin C and L had the same size dish in the pistons... Along the line that dish changed, and supposedly Compression went from 8.5 : 1 to 9.0 : 1 .... HP and Torque figures remained the same..

From what we have seen most of the Older 95-99 SE bonnevilles will run high 15'* or low 16'* at the track... I get the feeling my 2.84 ratio trans with the 165HP vin C 3800 could just about pull a 16.6 or maybe a 17...

In my opinion I like both of these cars... Both are beautiful, and both are Bonnevilles... Either way I will like them...

Please keep this thread clean, and lets post some good numbers

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Old 02-20-2006, 05:03 PM   #19
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I have to agree with Don on this one.....Both are Very nice cars and would be proud to own and drive one....but the engines that are in the cars are designed to do 2 different things.....3800SC is a stop to stop light racer, while the N* is a highway king
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Old 02-20-2006, 05:56 PM   #20
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I also read in a magazine where a Cadilac Eldorado with a Northstar ran a 14:60 1/4 and beat a 1969 Plymouth Roadrunner with a 383 .But the Eldorado has the 300HP or 320 HP motor in it which is 25-45 more HP than the GXP.The editor was comparing new cars to old cars and was impressed the Eldorado ran that good.Too bad they didnt put the 300HP or 320HP motor in the GXP and I dont undersand why because they put the 3:71 gear in evidently for performance.
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