Bosch+4 Platinum VS. NGK TR55 in 96 Vin K (NA) SSE
12-21-2006, 11:08 AM
#21
Guest
Posts: n/a
Again, you are free to run what ever you want... Its your car...
But we will make sure the information is out there.. Not everyone here has the $$ to waste on plugs or the knowledge to know when the plugs are crapping out on them causing them what seems to be more expensive trouble...
A set of 6 plugs, $25 not bad at all.... 20k miles later the car begins to stumble and stutter, the SES light is flashing... Owner doesn't understand why and takes it to a dealership and gets raped for a $70 fee to figure out whats going on and then pays $200 for a tune up to later find out that it was the $25 set of plugs that caused the trouble in the first place...
This is what will happen to an owner that is not well versed in the car that they drive and what parts to use for longevity..
we are here to try and save people money... There are those that don't know much about cars except to drive them.. I have severasl friends like that, and I would not use a Bosch Platinum in their cars as I wouldn't want them to end up with this issue...
But, Remember, you evidentaly like to work on your own car... Thats fine... If the plugs were to give you trouble it would only cost you a new set of plugs $25 .... and you can change them out quickly... Thats good and I'm glad that you can do that as you will save youself the headache and $$..
But please keep in mind from a forum standpoint where we are trying to do what we can to protect the members and save them from getting raped at the shop or dealership when a set of Bosch platinums crap out, and they have no understanding of why their car is acting up...
I will not reccomend the Bosch Platinums... But again, if you want to run them and you like them, thats fine... But you have to look at the whole picture from our viewpoint..
Thanks... * end rant *
__________________
Best Car Insurance | Auto Protection Today | FREE Trade-In Quote
But we will make sure the information is out there.. Not everyone here has the $$ to waste on plugs or the knowledge to know when the plugs are crapping out on them causing them what seems to be more expensive trouble...
A set of 6 plugs, $25 not bad at all.... 20k miles later the car begins to stumble and stutter, the SES light is flashing... Owner doesn't understand why and takes it to a dealership and gets raped for a $70 fee to figure out whats going on and then pays $200 for a tune up to later find out that it was the $25 set of plugs that caused the trouble in the first place...
This is what will happen to an owner that is not well versed in the car that they drive and what parts to use for longevity..
we are here to try and save people money... There are those that don't know much about cars except to drive them.. I have severasl friends like that, and I would not use a Bosch Platinum in their cars as I wouldn't want them to end up with this issue...
But, Remember, you evidentaly like to work on your own car... Thats fine... If the plugs were to give you trouble it would only cost you a new set of plugs $25 .... and you can change them out quickly... Thats good and I'm glad that you can do that as you will save youself the headache and $$..
But please keep in mind from a forum standpoint where we are trying to do what we can to protect the members and save them from getting raped at the shop or dealership when a set of Bosch platinums crap out, and they have no understanding of why their car is acting up...
I will not reccomend the Bosch Platinums... But again, if you want to run them and you like them, thats fine... But you have to look at the whole picture from our viewpoint..
Thanks... * end rant *
__________________
Best Car Insurance | Auto Protection Today | FREE Trade-In Quote
12-21-2006, 11:24 AM
#22
Junior Member
Posts like a Ricer Type-R
Originally Posted by willwren
Bosch acknowledges a problem with using their Bosch Platinum spark plugs
in engines with ignition systems that employ 1 coil for each pair of spark
plugs (also known as a "waste spark ignition system").
The problem that Bosch has acknowledged when using their Platinum plugs
in engines with waste spark ignition systems stems from the tendency of
electrode metal to get transferred depending upon the polarity (direction
of current flow) of the spark. In waste spark ignition systems, 1/2 of the
plugs always see reverse polarity sparks. Given the very narrow platinum
center electrode of the Bosch Platinums, performance will be degraded more
significantly when reverse polarity sparks will cause material to be
transferred from the large ground/outer electrode onto the narrow platinum
center electrode'* exposed end surface.
in engines with ignition systems that employ 1 coil for each pair of spark
plugs (also known as a "waste spark ignition system").
The problem that Bosch has acknowledged when using their Platinum plugs
in engines with waste spark ignition systems stems from the tendency of
electrode metal to get transferred depending upon the polarity (direction
of current flow) of the spark. In waste spark ignition systems, 1/2 of the
plugs always see reverse polarity sparks. Given the very narrow platinum
center electrode of the Bosch Platinums, performance will be degraded more
significantly when reverse polarity sparks will cause material to be
transferred from the large ground/outer electrode onto the narrow platinum
center electrode'* exposed end surface.
http://www.brickboard.com/ARCHIVES/1...10003481.shtml
And it'* not just them or us:
http://www.taurusclub.com/forum/inde...showtopic=2915
AT LEAST a 36.25% failure rate in our sample size of 80 vehicles
17.5% failed immediately
Another 18.75% that didn't fail immediately failed within 20K miles (premature for a platinum plug)
There are still another 31.25% that are working so far, but haven't accumulated 20K miles yet. So they are "up for grabs" statistically, an could inflate that 36.25% failure rate even higher.
Still want to gamble?
Dan
AT LEAST a 36.25% failure rate in our sample size of 80 vehicles
17.5% failed immediately
Another 18.75% that didn't fail immediately failed within 20K miles (premature for a platinum plug)
There are still another 31.25% that are working so far, but haven't accumulated 20K miles yet. So they are "up for grabs" statistically, an could inflate that 36.25% failure rate even higher.
Still want to gamble?
Dan
I suggest you trust us. We base our opinions on Bosch plugs FOR THIS APPLICATION on our own personal experience and that of our members, as well as research.
If you want to say "Gee, I wonder if it'* true?" and you have the budget, by all means, go buy them and try them. You may or may not have problems, but the VAST majority of those 3800'* on this Forum that have tried them have had the same negative experience.
Based on all this, we will CONTINUE to suggest alternatives to Bosch plugs in 3800 GM FWD applications (as well as other applications if deemed necessary).
Your call.
12-21-2006, 11:34 AM
#24
Guest
Posts: n/a
Please tell me you aren't running Bosch Plats in a supercharged application?
__________________
Best Car Insurance | Auto Protection Today | FREE Trade-In Quote
__________________
Best Car Insurance | Auto Protection Today | FREE Trade-In Quote
12-21-2006, 11:35 AM
#25
Junior Member
Posts like a Ricer Type-R
You have Bosch. That'* bad enough. Platinum is even worse in Forced Induction.
When you hit summer time warmer weather, they will **** on you. And it'll be so gradual you may not notice.
For L67'*, go with Autolites or NGK (NON-PLATINUM) either copper or Irridium.
When you hit summer time warmer weather, they will **** on you. And it'll be so gradual you may not notice.
For L67'*, go with Autolites or NGK (NON-PLATINUM) either copper or Irridium.
12-21-2006, 11:49 AM
#27
Member
Posts like a V-Tak
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Cary, NC
Posts: 40
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by jr's3800
Again, you are free to run what ever you want... Its your car...
But we will make sure the information is out there.. Not everyone here has the $$ to waste on plugs or the knowledge to know when the plugs are crapping out on them causing them what seems to be more expensive trouble...
...
we are here to try and save people money... There are those that don't know much about cars except to drive them.. I have severasl friends like that, and I would not use a Bosch Platinum in their cars as I wouldn't want them to end up with this issue...
...
Thanks... * end rant *
But we will make sure the information is out there.. Not everyone here has the $$ to waste on plugs or the knowledge to know when the plugs are crapping out on them causing them what seems to be more expensive trouble...
...
we are here to try and save people money... There are those that don't know much about cars except to drive them.. I have severasl friends like that, and I would not use a Bosch Platinum in their cars as I wouldn't want them to end up with this issue...
...
Thanks... * end rant *
1) The quote that someone doesn't have $30 to "waste" on plugs. Well if they save $30 or more in gas, why is it a waste to buy good plugs?
2) "We are here to save people money"? What? Where is that in the mission statement for the BonnevilleClub? How many people here work on their own cars compared to the norm? I'll be it'* over 90%!
If people don't work on their own cars, in one form or another, there is really no need to come here except to buy another car. they would just go to the local shop or dealer and not NEED this information.
People sell parts, give advice on things, and all kinds of stuff. but almost all of them are people who do SOME work on cars. I'm not talking about rebuilding a transmission work, but tune up and oil changes, etc.
It'* only my rough guess of 90% or so of the people here do work on their own cars, but even if it'* 75%, it'* still much higher than the average car owner. Because we care about our cars and want them to last, perform, look great, etc. etc.
So I guess I'm confused on those two points and don't understand why this is causing so much of an issue.
12-21-2006, 11:54 AM
#28
Junior Member
Posts like a Ricer Type-R
Chip, we save people more money than any average Forum of our size and membership. It'* a quest for us. The veterans here can tell you all about it.
Why would you gain more fuel mileage from Bosch than I do with NGK? jr's3800 and I are easily within the top 1% of fuel mileage with our cars running NGK TR-55'*.
I bet you can't beat our mileage with Bosch, at least when they're not new any more. So the Bosch isn't really getting you the mileage. The FRESH plugs are. But as they start to deteriorate (and they will, and Bosch knows they will, and Bosch knows why), you will begin losing again.
Why would you gain more fuel mileage from Bosch than I do with NGK? jr's3800 and I are easily within the top 1% of fuel mileage with our cars running NGK TR-55'*.
I bet you can't beat our mileage with Bosch, at least when they're not new any more. So the Bosch isn't really getting you the mileage. The FRESH plugs are. But as they start to deteriorate (and they will, and Bosch knows they will, and Bosch knows why), you will begin losing again.
12-21-2006, 12:01 PM
#29
Guest
Posts: n/a
Run what you will...
If you want to replace the plugs every 5000-10000 miles than please by all means do so.. There are a handfull here that do their own work and save quite a few $$$ in the process... But there are a series of people that are here solely for the information and do not work on their cars..
Again, you are free to run what plugs you want.. we want all of the info to be out there...
I am not fighting with you nor anyone else in this thread.. we have been over this debate and topic soo many times on this forum... We want all of the info out there for all of the other members... If they have read all of the info and want to use the Bosch Plats, +2'* or +4'* thats fine, they can do so...
I'm done here... I have nothing further to add
__________________
Best Car Insurance | Auto Protection Today | FREE Trade-In Quote
If you want to replace the plugs every 5000-10000 miles than please by all means do so.. There are a handfull here that do their own work and save quite a few $$$ in the process... But there are a series of people that are here solely for the information and do not work on their cars..
Again, you are free to run what plugs you want.. we want all of the info to be out there...
I am not fighting with you nor anyone else in this thread.. we have been over this debate and topic soo many times on this forum... We want all of the info out there for all of the other members... If they have read all of the info and want to use the Bosch Plats, +2'* or +4'* thats fine, they can do so...
I'm done here... I have nothing further to add
__________________
Best Car Insurance | Auto Protection Today | FREE Trade-In Quote
12-21-2006, 12:58 PM
#30
Senior Member
Certified GM nut
Bosch
Chip,
When I joint the BC I had Bosch plugs in the 96 SE. I was forwarned and the plugs went out with around 9k on them. I now run Delco platinums (made by NGK).
Different plugs had many heat ranges. Maybe the TR-55 '* were a colder plug than the platinum +4'*. So highway performance will be different.
I have said it in the past, for colder northern climates I like the champion copper RS14YC6 (thats what works for me). Its a hotter plug and performs flawlessly in the cold. We had a member from Sweden who couldn't start his car in the cold. He installed the champions and was blown away by the performance.
Everyone has their own likes and dislikes on products and the performanced produced but you can rest assured that enough people around here had trouble with bosch.
When I joint the BC I had Bosch plugs in the 96 SE. I was forwarned and the plugs went out with around 9k on them. I now run Delco platinums (made by NGK).
Different plugs had many heat ranges. Maybe the TR-55 '* were a colder plug than the platinum +4'*. So highway performance will be different.
I have said it in the past, for colder northern climates I like the champion copper RS14YC6 (thats what works for me). Its a hotter plug and performs flawlessly in the cold. We had a member from Sweden who couldn't start his car in the cold. He installed the champions and was blown away by the performance.
Everyone has their own likes and dislikes on products and the performanced produced but you can rest assured that enough people around here had trouble with bosch.