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Old 05-24-2010, 10:24 PM   #1
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Default Bonne will crank but won't start

Over the last few months I have watched what I think is a grounding problem unfold. Here is the story. My car would shut of for no apparent reason and start right up again when I turned the key. This would happen maybe once a month over a 2-3 month period. During the same time frame the check engine light would come on but when I turned the engine off and restarted it the check engine light would be gone. About a month ago the traction control light came on. Turned the ignition of and back on and all was normal again. These things would occur randomly about once a week at least. For at least the last six weeks or so the engine has not cut off but I did continue to get the check engine light issue. For an even longer time I would get a tail light warning or brake light warning on the driver info display but usually the lights appeared to be all lit. About a month ago I noticed that the guages to the right of the drivers info (gas guage, oil, temp, and drivers info all were out.) On occassion they would all come back either when I stared the car or while driving. When they came back the brake and tail light warnings would be lit in the drivers info panel. The guages have been dead for the last two weeks. This morning pulling out onto the street and the engine was missing as if a spark plug wire was loose and the traction control light was on. After a minute or so I turned the engine off and back on and all was fine again. My new air mix actuator came this evening so I went out and installed it but when I reconnected the battery and tried to start er up the engine cranked but never tried to fire. My first thought was maybe I knocked something loose under the dash but I installed a bad actuator on Friday and the car ran fine and I don't see any loose connectors or wires. I think the problem is unrelated to the actuator installation but I don't want to leave out anything. I cleaned the ground buses on the left and right front doors last fall. The PCM, and battery leads were done last fall. I know I should check them all again especially since I know that I have a water leak on the front passenger side that pools in the back floor. Sorry for the long post but as you can see there are a lot of symptoms. Does anyone see a pattern here or am I looking at several issues. I'm thinking possible crank sensor but then there are the obvious electrical issues as well. No garage, it just started raining and its dark outside so I'm done for tonight. Sorry for the long post. Any thoughts?
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Old 05-24-2010, 10:27 PM   #2
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Check if you have spark. I'm kind of thinking you wont. In this case you should check the ignition wiring harness real close. I suspect a possible short.
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Old 05-24-2010, 10:28 PM   #3
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Will do. Do you think the not starting and loss of guages are related or possibly another grounding issue?

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Old 05-24-2010, 10:34 PM   #4
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Something else too, I put my Actron scanner on it and the first time there were like fourteen different codes but I cleared it and ran it again and there were none. Of course I couldn't start it, I just had the ignition on. I mention it because a few weeks back I got the same thing but the engine was running. Does that mean anything?
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Old 05-25-2010, 10:52 AM   #5
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I had a little time this morning so I pulled the ICM and the harness looks good. The ICM is still clean. There was corrosion where the two positive cables join at the battery so I cleaned them as well as I could. I may replace that one. The two ground busses still look good. I pulled the carpet up and the bolts that mount the air bag sensor to the floor are rusted and the box looks corroded some. I know water stands there or has in the past. Would that be a possible grounding issue for the system? Are there any other precautions to take other that disconnecting the battery if I decide to clean it up? Also, lately the door locks sound like they are activating usually shortly after I have closed a door.

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Old 05-25-2010, 10:55 AM   #6
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I don't think it'* a ground problem seeing the car cranks. You need to pull a plug and put it on the spark plug wire. Then lay the plug on a ground and crank. Watch for spark. I suspect you have no spark. That means dead ICM, dead CPS, shorted ignition harness.
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Old 05-25-2010, 11:10 AM   #7
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You mention having codes, you mention deleting codes. The big question is.. what were the codes? The car told you clues to the problem, please share them.
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Old 05-25-2010, 11:29 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danthurs View Post
I don't think it'* a ground problem seeing the car cranks. You need to pull a plug and put it on the spark plug wire. Then lay the plug on a ground and crank. Watch for spark. I suspect you have no spark. That means dead ICM, dead CPS, shorted ignition harness.
Ok, what is CPS?
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Old 05-25-2010, 11:35 AM   #9
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A CPS is a cam position sensor. I believe Dan meant CKPS which is a crank position sensor. Pretty common item on our cars.
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Old 05-25-2010, 11:38 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillBoost37 View Post
You mention having codes, you mention deleting codes. The big question is.. what were the codes? The car told you clues to the problem, please share them.
Bill, I didn't write them down since I had seen an identical situation a few weeks ago and I scanned it again right after and no codes. I expected that if I reset the scanner and scanned it again the codes would come back if they were real but none showed. I thought there were way too many to be anything other than an anomaly since normally the only code that I get is related to the trans dropping out of overdrive when hot which is a whole other issue. I will scan it again later and let you know what shows.
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