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Old 04-10-2008, 09:56 PM   #31
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Zooomer, we can argue all day long about how coils go bad, and how I check them, but I can gaurantee you my OEM coils were fine when I upgraded, they were checked under load with a megger, and I'll re-iterate what I said in my post above that there'* a significant difference in Series 1 coils.

I don't think MSD coils and wires are going to 'cost' Danthurs 4hp.
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Old 04-11-2008, 11:47 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willwren
Zooomer, we can argue all day long about how coils go bad, and how I check them, but I can gaurantee you my OEM coils were fine when I upgraded, they were checked under load with a megger, and I'll re-iterate what I said in my post above that there'* a significant difference in Series 1 coils.

I don't think MSD coils and wires are going to 'cost' Danthurs 4hp.
I posted dyno numbers from our experience. I can't comment on an individual car'* exact HP number. If someone wanted to come here and try our wires, against their MSDs and buy ours when they outperform, I would cover all the dyno costs.

Whether we're arguing or discussing is a matter of opinion I suppose. I will say that I'm not sure you can guarantee a coil is fine. Did you test the voltage output of the coil? Did you scope the output wave? What makes you qualified to give a guarantee like that? I think a statement that 'you believe the coil was fine' would be more accurate.
In a discussion of performance parts, the waters get muddied when people start talking about how the car 'feels' or what they 'think' the HP is. I've posted facts based on disection of components, electronic theory, dyno results, etc. It'* frustrating to have a debate with someone who counters with statements based on emotion and feelings as those things are subjective.
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Old 04-11-2008, 12:11 PM   #33
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Zoomer, this is the last off-topic post in this topic.

I'm very well qualified to test and confirm operation of a coil, but I'm not going to post my resume here, or anyone else'* for that matter. I have all the proper tools, experience, knowledge and even the diplomas to back up my work.

I also know that 4hp can be normal pull-to-pull variation on a dyno. I also give you the nod as you're not as experienced with Series 1 coils, considering most of your focus has been on the newer gen, primarily boosted applications.

Let'* get back on topic, but I think it'* about over anyway. He chose his coils and wires.
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Old 04-11-2008, 02:57 PM   #34
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Tell ya what zoomer, you match the MSD wire price and I'll take your wires. I've been holdign off gettign anything here untill thsi discustion is done. Bottem line for me is price difference. $59 for MSD, $99 for yours. As for coils, that'* still up in the air.
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Old 04-11-2008, 02:59 PM   #35
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Just vouching for those new ZZP wires. I picked up a set a few days back off your ebay auction and they are a pretty nice wire (thus far). I have gone through 3 sets of Beldens and i can honestly say the engine runs "smoother" with these wires than it did with the Beldens.
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Old 04-13-2008, 12:22 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danthurs
Tell ya what zoomer, you match the MSD wire price and I'll take your wires. I've been holdign off gettign anything here untill thsi discustion is done. Bottem line for me is price difference. $59 for MSD, $99 for yours. As for coils, that'* still up in the air.
I can't match the price because we're not talking about the same products. You can't go to a BMW dealer who just got done pitching his 325i and tell him to match the price of a malibu. Also there may be some confusion here. I'm not saying that ZZP wires are the best and will make 4HP for everyone. I am saying that even stock wires, which are less than $40/set, are better than MSD and they would be my recommendation if you are trying to save money or just replace worn wires.
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Old 04-13-2008, 01:00 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Zooomer
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danthurs
Tell ya what zoomer, you match the MSD wire price and I'll take your wires. I've been holdign off gettign anything here untill thsi discustion is done. Bottem line for me is price difference. $59 for MSD, $99 for yours. As for coils, that'* still up in the air.
I can't match the price because we're not talking about the same products. You can't go to a BMW dealer who just got done pitching his 325i and tell him to match the price of a malibu. Also there may be some confusion here. I'm not saying that ZZP wires are the best and will make 4HP for everyone. I am saying that even stock wires, which are less than $40/set, are better than MSD and they would be my recommendation if you are trying to save money or just replace worn wires.
Then I feel this converstaion is at a end. I want wires, that'* all, others have suggested MSD. I'm sure ZZP wires are a fine product. I've ordered several things form ZZP and been very happy with everything. But now there'* a disclamier about the 4hp thing. When I make a choice I tend to listen to what every person says. as a vendor your biased to push your product. as I said, I'm sure it'* a fine product, but to me not worth the price. Had you matched or even gotten close on price I woudl have gone with them because I've had good experences with ZZP and woudl like to keep giving my business. But price is a factor. Your analigy is flawed, a car is not a car. But in this case, both sets of wires are very close, only the lable is different. A better analigy woudl be two different computers. Both same speed, and features, but a different manufactuer. Compaqu vs dell, To make the sale they will match the price provided they are nearly the same. Part of something is always better then all of nothing. I started this thread to help me make a choice on what wires to go with. There was healthy discustion. Now it comes down to where I buy them from, and who gets my business. I will be making my choice in the next few days. My offer to you still stands.
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Old 04-13-2008, 03:42 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danthurs
as a vendor your biased to push your product. as I said, I'm sure it'* a fine product, but to me not worth the price. ...But in this case, both sets of wires are very close, only the lable is different. A better analigy woudl be two different computers. Both same speed, and features, but a different manufactuer.
You are completely missing the point and that'* why I clarified that I'm not trying to push ZZP wires here.
1. Stock wires are a better choice than MSD. So are PRJ or any reliable wire that has a higher resistance than the MSDs. My information isn't meant to steer people into a specific wire, it'* meant to steer people away from MSDs. Any other brand would probably be a better choice.

2. MSDs are not comparible to ZZP. MSDs are 8.5mm, ZZPs are 10.3. ZZPs come with wire separators, MSDs do not. ZZP wires are higher resistance which makes them (and any good higher impedence wire) outperform the MSDs in this application. Hence my BMW/Malibu alalogy. But again, comparing ZZP to MSD is clouding the discussion which is about the reason some wires are better than others. It isn't about ZZP wires or MSDs, it'* about a specific application and why some types of wires will work better than others.

Quote:
Originally Posted by willwren
Zoomer, this is the last off-topic post in this topic.

I'm very well qualified to test and confirm operation of a coil, but I'm not going to post my resume here, or anyone else'* for that matter. I have all the proper tools, experience, knowledge and even the diplomas to back up my work.

I also know that 4hp can be normal pull-to-pull variation on a dyno.
This is on topic. Anything promoting knowledge about wires/coils and methods used to discover this knowledge is exactly on topic! Again I'm getting frustrated talking to you though. Just because you say you are qualified doesn't mean you are. You just posted about how you have the proper tools, and the smarts, and the experience but you didn't post a single bit of information! you just said "I'm smart and know how to test" but you continue to refuse to offer any real information other than "they feel good". I'm trying to learn as much as I can as are the people reading this post so please enlighten us with your knowledge. What testing did you do, how did you do it and what is the difference from the series 1 to the series 2 coil and ignition module? Is the series one ignition control module current and voltage limited or not? What is the difference in coil windings from series one to 2? What about spark dwell times?

As far as the 4HP dyno, I already explained that we tested multiple runs going back and forth from one set to the other and it was a consistant 4 HP removing the MSD wires on a 300 HP car.
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Old 04-13-2008, 04:48 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danthurs
Quote:
Originally Posted by willwren
The ZZP wires you posted are actually made by Taylor also.

The only QUALITY set of wires in red that I'm aware of that I would suggest are MSD. They are quite pricey as well. Jegs or Summit for those. I run them on the Zilla.

I suggest though, that you run the wire of YOUR choice regardless of color, and just use red wire loom on them. Wire loom should be a requirement for all plug wires on 3800'*.
And where might I get this from?
Dan if you wanted to get something other than MSD and want to loom them in red you can head out to the Jefferson Swap Meet on April 26-27. You can buy red loom at a very good price out there. I have gone many times and found tons of awesome deals there. Here is a link to the info.

http://www.madisonclassics.com/car-*...-jefferson.php
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Old 04-13-2008, 05:01 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blownville
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danthurs
Quote:
Originally Posted by willwren
The ZZP wires you posted are actually made by Taylor also.

The only QUALITY set of wires in red that I'm aware of that I would suggest are MSD. They are quite pricey as well. Jegs or Summit for those. I run them on the Zilla.

I suggest though, that you run the wire of YOUR choice regardless of color, and just use red wire loom on them. Wire loom should be a requirement for all plug wires on 3800'*.
And where might I get this from?
Dan if you wanted to get something other than MSD and want to loom them in red you can head out to the Jefferson Swap Meet on April 26-27. You can buy red loom at a very good price out there. I have gone many times and found tons of awesome deals there. Here is a link to the info.

http://www.madisonclassics.com/car-*...-jefferson.php
Go figure, I have to work.
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