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Old 04-08-2008, 05:46 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by samueljackson
danthurs, are you looking for a tailored set, or a universal that you will trim and crimp?
I want a set that'* all made, i dont feel like making my own.
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Old 04-08-2008, 05:57 PM   #22
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the tailor fit delcos and bosch ive put on in the past are very close, but not a "perfect" fit. i personally like the custom fit. and making the crimps isn't bad at all. and they are a lilttle better of a fit. heres accell'* i used, they turned out pretty good.
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idk if the msd are the same way but maybe Bill can say whether or not the msd will be a closer fit than the others i have tried.
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Old 04-09-2008, 02:08 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danthurs
and to clarifiy I'm going with MSD coil packs.
Again, more problems than stock.

The ignition control module sits under the coil packs. It sends a limited current to the coils for a predetermined pulse (dwell). You cannot change the wires or the coils to get 'more spark' because the ignition control module will not send more power to the coils. You would have to change the ignition control module for a significant increase. The MSD coils and/or the MSD wires are a downgrade in your ignition system in regards to the 3800. The best you can do is run a wire with slightly less resistance or more insulation. These are very small improvements but the only meaningful ones. Insuring that the ignition control module is getting 14.4 volts helps as well.

And yes, we dyno'd back and forth with the MSD wires vs. other units because it seemed strange to lose 4WHP every time we installed the MSDs.
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Old 04-09-2008, 02:27 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danthurs
and to clarifiy I'm going with MSD coil packs.
Again, more problems than stock.

The ignition control module sits under the coil packs. It sends a limited current to the coils for a predetermined pulse (dwell). You cannot change the wires or the coils to get 'more spark' because the ignition control module will not send more power to the coils. You would have to change the ignition control module for a significant increase. The MSD coils and/or the MSD wires are a downgrade in your ignition system in regards to the 3800. The best you can do is run a wire with slightly less resistance or more insulation. These are very small improvements but the only meaningful ones. Insuring that the ignition control module is getting 14.4 volts helps as well.

And yes, we dyno'd back and forth with the MSD wires vs. other units because it seemed strange to lose 4WHP every time we installed the MSDs.
This is the information that is on the site, I don't know enough to say one way or the other. It is however my understandgin that stronger coils make a stronger spark. Perhaps I'm wrong, I'll let others argue it, or tell me I'm wrong.

Quote:
When it comes to late model performance parts, nothing beats bolt-on and direct connection components. Especially when they improve performance with a hotter spark like these new MSD Blaster Coils. These new bolt-in coils are designed with improved materials and windings to produce a stronger spark. This improved spark helps burn the fuel mixture more efficiently resulting in a smooth idle and improved mid range rpm power.

MSD is pleased to offer these performance coils for your late model GM vehicle. They look great in MSD red and will connect to the factory wiring.

Specifications:

Primary Resistance: 0.35 ohms
Secondary Resistance: 7.8K ohms
Maximum Voltage: 40,000 volts
Inductance: 4.2 mH
Turns Ratio: 80:1
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Old 04-09-2008, 02:50 PM   #25
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Zooomer, the MSD coils have a higher turns ratio than the S2 L67 coils. Voltage is what jumps a gap. They produce a slightly higher voltage on the secondary than OEM coils.
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Old 04-09-2008, 05:29 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willwren
Zooomer, the MSD coils have a higher turns ratio than the S2 L67 coils. Voltage is what jumps a gap. They produce a slightly higher voltage on the secondary than OEM coils.
But the current is determined by the resistance and voltage. This coil with higher turns has to put out more voltage, which when combined with lower resistance makes for much higher current. Since the current is limited by the ignition control module, the system collapses and you don't get an increase of anything. You get an inefficient system.

Think of it like this:
You have a battery pack, say 2 D cells. They are limited in total power output. You can run a higher wattage bulb and it will be brighter all the way until you get a bulb with a resistance low enough to generate more current than what the batteries can provide. At that point, the 'brighter' bulb will glow dimmer than a bulb that is rated for less light output but is more appropriately sized to the power source.
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Old 04-09-2008, 06:35 PM   #27
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That would explain why I saw a remarkable difference in the burn pattern on my plugs when I switched to them? And why I'm slightly fouling my 2/5 plugs with an OEM coil in that location because of a very old and tired MSD?

Granted, the S1 coils aren't as 'hot' as S2 L67 coils, yet the ICM is identical, so there'* more of a difference than you may think.
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Old 04-09-2008, 06:55 PM   #28
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Well, we seem to have a good old debate here. Willwren has provided evidnece to back his claims, can anyone else do the same?
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Old 04-09-2008, 07:27 PM   #29
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Most people running MSD coils here have noticed an obviously smoother idle over OEM coils, as well as a barely-perceptible smoother mid-band delivery.

That'* not just my observation either, and many of the experiences are posted here on the forum. Probably not a POWER increase that can be characterized by a dyno with any accuracy, but smoother.
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Old 04-10-2008, 02:04 PM   #30
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my statements come from:
1. Replacing a lot of defective MSD coils and wires. We see and work on hundred of cars giving us a better understanding of failure rates than someone testing on one car.

2. Dyno testing doing A/B comparisons. We have dyno'd 100'* of cars, done dozens of very high HP builds where spark blow out was an issue. On these builds we cannot use the MSD products because the car will not run with high levels of boost. Spark blowout becomes an issue which is cured by upgrading the MSD products to OEM. This is clear evidence that the spark is weaker using the MSD products which was confirmed with research posted. Because we are the only company doing builds like this with our own dyno and the engineers to research the problems, we are the only ones qualified to do testing which accurately determines the best product.

3. Ken Walsworth is a nuclear engineer with advanced training in electronic systems. He disected a stock coil pack and explained the function. He then developed a coil on plug system for the 3800 which we have been testing variations of for years. He developed the ICCU, FloCharger, AFC and numerous custom electronic devices. I don't think there are many in our community who are at his level and he is here in GR working with ZZP since day 1.

4. GM about 20 years ago had their ignition system taken by the federal government and given to other OEMs for the good of man. It reduced the emissions. If simply changing the # of windings or resistance of the wires made the engine run smoother, GM would have done it for emissions. It doesn't cost anything to change those things. Reducing emissions, even by a very small amount would save an OEM millions.

But hey, if you say that a few guys 'feel' the difference and that counts as evidence, then I guess there really isn't a way I can disprove that. I will add this though. Many times people replace old or defective parts. When doing so, you may use a part that isn't as good as OEM (like the MSD) and still see a nice gain in performance or how 'smooth' the car feels. This isn't because the new product is good though, it'* because the old one was bad.
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