Oh yeah what he said lol didnt even think of it nice save dan

Thanks for all the info guys I really appriciate it!

I have tried starting it in neutral, no luck.. And with the Northstar the starter is actually not visable at all. It entirely enlosed under what I was told is the intake mantifold.. Maybe not the right word? Were hopefully going to have time to work on it tomorrow!

The starter on a Northstar motor is under the intake manifold in the valley where the lifters are.

What it looks like with the starter taken out.

WOW thats ridiculous

Who thought that would be a good idea.

I'm glad I don't have the Northstar in my Caddy, but I wish I had a 4t80e transmission.

Yea its been a real headache... No luch again today.. This really sucks :(

Put ANOTHER brand new battery in and it didn't start this time. This car is confusing! Maybe the starter blew immediately after i put a new battery in last time.. or computer is bad... or maybe ignition switch.. idk we didnt check that today, dad'd not excited about ripping the steering colum apart... Anyone have anything they think the symptoms relate to??

I would try by passing VATS.

Here'* a site to how to by-pass VATS. http://newrockies.ca/

I had similar problem on my Caddy. Sometimes it wouldn't start and got to the point the Security light would come on. Then I would get a message across the screen saying I had to wait 15 minutes and it would count down. I couldn't get the right resistance from the pellet in the key. So I took the key to a GM dealership to tell me which number I had. Then I used the right resistors, but got the same message. Only part left was the VATS module so I bought a new one. Then the new VATS module had to "learn" the correct resistance. You can't go to a junkyard and get a VATS module because it probably bad or doesn't have the right resistance.

Are you getting a Security light or a message on your instrument cluster?

I also have been thinking its the VATS but my dad doesn't agree because it started once after we took out starter and battery and re installed..... But to me it seems to have all the symptoms other than that.

I don't recall how the VATs is handled on your car, but soem will crank and start, then shut off the injectors, others wont crank. My service manuals don't go back that far for your brand.