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Old 02-02-2012, 06:34 PM   #1
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Pontiac 03 GP what do these numbers say? I grew up using matches to set the dwell and too old to learn anything from what spoiled brats think.. lol
P0650
fuel sys 1 CL
fuel sys 2 NA
calc load % 8.24
ect c -21
stft 81% -1.56
lift 81 % 0.00
map kpa 42.00
eng rpm1255veh speed 0
maf g/* 10.88
tps% 0.39


Unplugged the battary to clear everything while changing oil, this car was run needing attention for a while. had wiring harness pulled out of the way replacing plugs and wires they were real bad, engine was barely running.I have the engine running smooth now but no lic. plates, so being unable to drive it hard and clean things up its hard to tell if cat is clogged some and thinking drive it hard for a while may clean the exhaust system up some? still has an odor of lean running exhaust. so any help deciphering what this is means if anything?
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Old 02-02-2012, 07:21 PM   #2
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p0650- seems like you may have bumped something
https://www.gmforum.com/2000-2005-90/p0650-code-240580/

as far as running right im no expert at those things but i will try

fs1 (2 is n/a) closed loop, means using sensors to run efficiently as opposed to open which uses programed variables to run run the engine.

calculated load is just that
ect is i think engine coolant temp which may be your problem it shouldnt be -21c that would cause your lean issue
ltft and stft are long term fuel trim and short term, which is what the computer is doing to correct the a/f ratio, should be about zero plus or minus 3ish

maf is the air thats coming in your engine, there are supposed to be specs that are for how many gr/sec the car is supposed to have at x rpm in x gear in the fsm

tps is throttle position sensor this is how the computer knows where your foot is
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Old 02-02-2012, 11:20 PM   #3
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Thanks Justin, I kind of understand, lol Anyway the temp gauge is reading like 140 on the dash was going to try and find and replace the temp sensor, if it is not reading right that could effectively cause a lean condition? I'm learning. sorry it should of read 21 c.but it was warmed up. so sensor is needed?
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Old 02-03-2012, 04:30 AM   #4
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Replaced temp sensor, that fixed the dash temp gauge, exhaust smells better lol still showing a yellow lite for the emissions on scanner along with the P0650 Didn't find anything loose but did find battery cables run to the trunk cut off and a couple extra wires in the engine compartment aluminium wires old stereo system and also found a remains of a security set up more severed wires. will try and chase this stuff down and pull it out may have a bad spot where it was tied in to the existing. dang the dash and radio needs checking it had to be hooked up some where in there.lol ???
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Old 02-03-2012, 08:52 AM   #5
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it says 650 is mil control circuit so looking at the diagram all there is is a ground signal from B5 on IPC with a brown/white wire to pcm C2-5

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Old 02-06-2012, 12:16 AM   #6
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wish I knew how to explain.lol I am thinking at one time there was a remote start maybe a security system or a combo unit? I have wires goin all over spliced in there is three set of wires that go to engine compartment. one set goes to a siren horn looking thing and another wire to a switch that works off the hood opening an closing? another wire goes to wire at the ignition coils a third set goes to the battery heavy gauge wire. there is also heavy gauge wires pos and neg in the trunk? under the dash wires are spliced every where and they seem to go to a box shoved up in a space in the dash not secured other then wires holding it in there. not factory im sure.
my question is this or could this be setting off the P0650? I know one wire spliced into is a brown white wire? up by the light switch. rambling. since this is all unhooked under the hood and back in the trunk and no remote controller to check it with Im going to reverse wire it and undo the splices and pull that stuff out of there? Does this sound right? Im not real familiar with these remotes. want to put remote in the ultra but this is a freebie job so junk comes out not putting any in.lol. hope I'm not screwin up.lol watch what I cut lol I need a couple shots.
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Old 02-06-2012, 07:45 AM   #7
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the hood switch, siren and wire going to the coil pack would be for a remote start/alarm combo. the heavy power wire going inside is likely for an aftermarket head unit some of them require more power. the wires in the trunk would be for an amp. all of those could be removed. as for the 650 maybe they tapped into the wrong wire with something and couldnt figure it out and left it. i dont have alot of respect for those installers, even the best place around here F'd up one of my cars putting in one of those units. so i wouldnt doubt they did something like that. make sure they didnt put any of those squeeze on splices in there and remove any you see, they vibrate loose and cause intermittent issues as well as breaking wires
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Old 02-06-2012, 12:42 PM   #8
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Taking my time chasing the wires down seems I have one wire that was cut and spliced I'll put that back together, they used a lot of the squeeze splices I'll get them out and put liquid rubber over the slits. some are wrapped in tape with a plastic tie over the tape, wonder what I'll find under the tape? removing some then starting the car to make sure i don't get too far ahead of myself and see that everything still works before removing more. on a couple restarts had no codes do some more and P0650 shows again. have a couple wires headed up to the instrument panel so still have a ways to go.
I am thinking of putting a remote starter in my Ultra I better think long and hard about that. It could be nice or a nightmare lol better get put on pills first.lol
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Old 02-06-2012, 01:16 PM   #9
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i dont trust anyone to do anything to my car just because of what you are finding that car is a nightmare. i took my less than a year old 03 monte to the most upstanding aftermarket place around and they made it start intermittently not starting at all(even with the key), i started tearing into it and its like the car you are working on all sloppy and poor practice for something that vibrates all the time. its very difficult to right once messed up. those squeeze on ones also break the wires in there and its almost impossible to see the intermittent connection inside the wire.

doing one for yourself is fine if you take your time use solder and heat shrink. i usually take out the driver seat to give myself some room. and buy a unit that has about 3-4 times the advertised range that you think you will ever need
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Old 02-06-2012, 01:20 PM   #10
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if you cant find where that br/white wire is broke you could just find the spot close to the ipc and pcm and solder in a new wire.
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