4T65-E Transmission Questions Help
03-30-2012, 01:30 PM
#11
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P1641 MIL Control Circuit
p1654 A/C Relay Control Circuit
You also might be a candidate for this TSB
Bulletin No.: 0O-07-30-002B
Date: July, 2002
TECHNICAL
Subject:
Slips, Harsh Upshift or Garage Shifts, Launch Shudders, Flares, Erratic Shifts and Intermittent Concerns, DTC P1811 or P0748 Set (Replace Pressure Control Solenoid Valve Assembly)
Models:
1997-1999 Buick Riviera
1997-2002 Buick Park Avenue
1998-2002 Buick LeSabre
1999-2002 Buick Regal
2000-2002 Buick Century
2002 Buick Rendezvous
1997-2001 Chevrolet Lumina
1997-2002 Chevrolet Monte Carlo
1999-2002 Chevrolet Venture
2000-2002 Chevrolet Impala
1997-1999 Oldsmobile Eighty Eight
1997-2002 Oldsmobile Silhouette
1998-2002 Oldsmobile Intrigue
2001-2002 Oldsmobile Aurora (3.5L)
1997-2002 Pontiac Bonneville, Grand Prix
1999-2002 Pontiac Transport/Montana
2001-2002 Pontiac Aztek
with Hydra-Matic 4T65-E (RPOs MN3, MN7, M15, M76)
This bulletin is being revised to add additional models and model years. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 00-07-30-002A (Section 07 - Transmission/Transaxle).
Condition
Some owners of the above vehicles with a HydraMatic 4T65-E transaxle may comment on harsh upshifts or harsh garage shifts, soft shifts, shudders on hard acceleration, or shifts erratic. These conditions may appear intermittently or set a DTC P1811 or P0748. During diagnosis, a low or high line pressure (actual versus desired) may be observed.
Cause
The above condition may be due to any one of the following which may affect line pressure output:
^Sediment inside the pressure control (PC) solenoid valve, causing the PC solenoid valve to mechanically bind.
^Sediment in the valve body, causing the torque signal regulator valve to stick.
^Incorrect transaxle oil level.
circuit description
output driver modules (odms) are used by the pcm to turn on many of the current-driven devices that are needed to control various engine and transaxle functions. Each odm is capable of controlling up to 7 separate outputs by applying ground to the device which the pcm is commanding on. Unlike the quad driver modules (qdms) used in prior model years, odms have the capability of diagnosing each output circuit individually. Dtc p1641 set indicates an improper voltage level on the output circuit that controls the malfunction indicator lamp (mil).
conditions for setting the dtc
check for the following conditions:
reviewing the fail records vehicle mileage since the diagnostic test last failed may help determine how often the condition that caused the dtc to be set occurs. This may assist in diagnosing the condition.
test description
number(*) below refer to the step number(*) on the diagnostic table.
output driver modules (odms) are used by the pcm to turn on many of the current-driven devices that are needed to control various engine and transaxle functions. Each odm is capable of controlling up to 7 separate outputs by applying ground to the device which the pcm is commanding on. Unlike the quad driver modules (qdms) used in prior model years, odms have the capability of diagnosing each output circuit individually. Dtc p1641 set indicates an improper voltage level on the output circuit that controls the malfunction indicator lamp (mil).
conditions for setting the dtc
- ignition is on.
- an improper voltage level has been detected on the mil control circuit.
- above conditions for at least 30 seconds.
- the pcm will not illuminate the malfunction indicator lamp (mil).
- the pcm will store conditions which were present when the dtc set as fail records data only. This information will not be stored as freeze frame data.
- a history dtc will clear after 40 consecutive warm-up cycles have occurred without a malfunction.
- dtc can be cleared by using the scan tool clear info function or by disconnecting the pcm battery feed.
check for the following conditions:
- poor connection at the pcm or instrument panel.
- damaged harness.
reviewing the fail records vehicle mileage since the diagnostic test last failed may help determine how often the condition that caused the dtc to be set occurs. This may assist in diagnosing the condition.
test description
number(*) below refer to the step number(*) on the diagnostic table.
- normally, ignition feed voltage should be present on the control circuit with the pcm disconnected and the ignition turned on.
- checks for a shorted component or a short to b+ on the control circuit. Either condition would result in a measured current of over 500 milliamps. Also checks for a component that is causing an open circuit while being operated, resulting in a measured current of 0 milliamps.
- checks for a short to voltage on the control circuit.
output driver modules (odms) are used by the pcm to turn on many of the current-driven devices that are needed to control various engine and transaxle tunctions. Each odm is capable of controlling up to 7 separate outputs by applying ground to the device which the pcm is commanding on. Unlike the quad driver modules (qdms) used in prior model years, odms have the capability of diagnosing each output circuit individually. Dtc p1654 set indicates an improper voltage level has been detected on odm b output 4, which controls the a/c compressor control relay.
conditions for setting the dtc
check for the following conditions:
test description
number(*) below refer to the step number(*) on the diagnostic table.
conditions for setting the dtc
- the ignition is on.
- an improper voltage level has been detected on the a/c compressor control relay control circuit.
- the above conditions are present for at least 30 seconds.
- the pcm will not illuminate the malfunction indicator lamp (mil).
- the pcm will store conditions which were present when the dtc set as fail records data only. This information will not be stored as freeze frame data.
- a history dtc will clear after 40 consecutive warm-up cycles have occurred without a malfunction.
- dtc can be cleared by using the scan tool clear info function or by disconnecting the pcm battery feed.
check for the following conditions:
- poor connection at the pcm or the a/c compressor control relay.
- damaged harness.
- if the harness appears to be ok, disconnect the pcm, turn the ignition on and observe a digital multimeter connected between the a/c compressor control relay control circuit and ground at the pcm harness connector while moving connectors and wiring harnesses related to the a/c compressor control relay. A change in voltage will indicate the location of the malfunction.
test description
number(*) below refer to the step number(*) on the diagnostic table.
- normally, ignition feed voltage should be present on the control circuit with the pcm disconnected and the ignition turned on.
- checks for a shorted component or a short to b+ on the control circuit. Either condition would result in a measured current of over 500 milliamps. Also checks for a component that is going open while being operated, resulting in a measured current of 0 milliamps.
- checks for a short to voltage on the control circuit.
You also might be a candidate for this TSB
Bulletin No.: 0O-07-30-002B
Date: July, 2002
TECHNICAL
Subject:
Slips, Harsh Upshift or Garage Shifts, Launch Shudders, Flares, Erratic Shifts and Intermittent Concerns, DTC P1811 or P0748 Set (Replace Pressure Control Solenoid Valve Assembly)
Models:
1997-1999 Buick Riviera
1997-2002 Buick Park Avenue
1998-2002 Buick LeSabre
1999-2002 Buick Regal
2000-2002 Buick Century
2002 Buick Rendezvous
1997-2001 Chevrolet Lumina
1997-2002 Chevrolet Monte Carlo
1999-2002 Chevrolet Venture
2000-2002 Chevrolet Impala
1997-1999 Oldsmobile Eighty Eight
1997-2002 Oldsmobile Silhouette
1998-2002 Oldsmobile Intrigue
2001-2002 Oldsmobile Aurora (3.5L)
1997-2002 Pontiac Bonneville, Grand Prix
1999-2002 Pontiac Transport/Montana
2001-2002 Pontiac Aztek
with Hydra-Matic 4T65-E (RPOs MN3, MN7, M15, M76)
This bulletin is being revised to add additional models and model years. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 00-07-30-002A (Section 07 - Transmission/Transaxle).
Condition
Some owners of the above vehicles with a HydraMatic 4T65-E transaxle may comment on harsh upshifts or harsh garage shifts, soft shifts, shudders on hard acceleration, or shifts erratic. These conditions may appear intermittently or set a DTC P1811 or P0748. During diagnosis, a low or high line pressure (actual versus desired) may be observed.
Cause
The above condition may be due to any one of the following which may affect line pressure output:
^Sediment inside the pressure control (PC) solenoid valve, causing the PC solenoid valve to mechanically bind.
^Sediment in the valve body, causing the torque signal regulator valve to stick.
^Incorrect transaxle oil level.
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03-30-2012, 01:58 PM
#12
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Well I just got the 4t65E on PA scanned at trans shop. Info from them as below.
P1604 loss of IPC serial data.
P1641
P1654 (FC Relay Control?)
P1811 maximum adapt + long shift
They recommend pulling the trans and install new Sonics valve body with updates and stainless valves ( has new pressure Solenoid in it) etc.
They would also inspect clutch bands etc on bench and advise if $$$$+++
Any thoughts on above codes where do I start ????
P1604 loss of IPC serial data.
P1641
P1654 (FC Relay Control?)
P1811 maximum adapt + long shift
They recommend pulling the trans and install new Sonics valve body with updates and stainless valves ( has new pressure Solenoid in it) etc.
They would also inspect clutch bands etc on bench and advise if $$$$+++
Any thoughts on above codes where do I start ????
I can't comment on the codes that start with 16.
03-30-2012, 02:11 PM
#13
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Start with cleaning up the accumulator, may buy you some more time. After that I would say lower the trans and replace the EPC solenoid. That may be all it needs. Those run about $65
03-30-2012, 10:36 PM
#14
Senior Member
True Car Nut
Thread Starter
Suddenly this new to me PA sounds like a real lemon. =Electrical Cash PIT.
Ok
SO ya Mike Thanks the 1654 is making some sense. My AC/Clutch sometimes intermittently has no power to clutch. One day it works the next forget it. But then this code could be other stuff too. THX for description!
OK 1641 I thought was about the fan relay 1. NO set a MIL? Ya well I never seen one on this car and I would have thought with all these codes the light should be on. God knows how to chase that all down or what other owner has now done to get it off LOL!
Where is the list of codes that you are getting this info from \\ Is there one specific Buick trouble codes list for the 97 park ave??? LINK PLEASE!!!!
What is code 1604 LOSS of IPC Serial Data Like loose connector or?\ no power?
Ok
SO ya Mike Thanks the 1654 is making some sense. My AC/Clutch sometimes intermittently has no power to clutch. One day it works the next forget it. But then this code could be other stuff too. THX for description!
OK 1641 I thought was about the fan relay 1. NO set a MIL? Ya well I never seen one on this car and I would have thought with all these codes the light should be on. God knows how to chase that all down or what other owner has now done to get it off LOL!
Where is the list of codes that you are getting this info from \\ Is there one specific Buick trouble codes list for the 97 park ave??? LINK PLEASE!!!!
What is code 1604 LOSS of IPC Serial Data Like loose connector or?\ no power?
03-31-2012, 09:16 AM
#15
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The light only comes on if there'* an emission problem.
Go to the front page here, look down for tech info. There'* a sub area for OBD2. Most of the codes are the same for all GM cars.
Go to the front page here, look down for tech info. There'* a sub area for OBD2. Most of the codes are the same for all GM cars.
03-31-2012, 09:38 AM
#16
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Certified Car Nut
I missed this one again.. those 2 codes I gave you came off of Alldata. Considering those 2 codes are ODM related, I figured they might have something to do with the trans solenoid. In earlier cars, it was referred to the QDM drivers. But, with your TSB about the solenoid, it would seem logical that is the culprit.
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03-31-2012, 11:05 AM
#17
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Well Dan that is a big relief to know that only emission related probs will trigger light.
I am off to a hardware store to see what I can dig up for spacers. I agree that a good place to start is having the accumulator cleaned up and firm up the shifts 1st.
Then see how it reacts when hot.
No doubt the EPC solenoid is throwing a code and the membranes/or what ever in that thing is not the best. Since I have have read comments that others install new EPC and a couple of years later they are toast again. The transmission shop also states the valve body have sometimes sticky valves which is why they use the Sonnax valve body or rebuild kit, I am not exactly sure, have to question them on that one.
Next question; Is there an UPGRADED better quality longer lasting EPC for this transmission??
or am I stuck with a GM part or performance aftermarket, what is now recommended?
That TSB is interesting..to bad no warranty..he he..I am going to drop GM and see what they say....& price out a part while there for curiosity sake...not $65 I bet LOL.
I am off to a hardware store to see what I can dig up for spacers. I agree that a good place to start is having the accumulator cleaned up and firm up the shifts 1st.
Then see how it reacts when hot.
No doubt the EPC solenoid is throwing a code and the membranes/or what ever in that thing is not the best. Since I have have read comments that others install new EPC and a couple of years later they are toast again. The transmission shop also states the valve body have sometimes sticky valves which is why they use the Sonnax valve body or rebuild kit, I am not exactly sure, have to question them on that one.
Next question; Is there an UPGRADED better quality longer lasting EPC for this transmission??
or am I stuck with a GM part or performance aftermarket, what is now recommended?
That TSB is interesting..to bad no warranty..he he..I am going to drop GM and see what they say....& price out a part while there for curiosity sake...not $65 I bet LOL.
03-31-2012, 11:40 AM
#18
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Thread Starter
Mike re the TSB 0O-07-30-002B
Basically (as mentioned) is about the whole pressure control valve in the valve body does not even mention the EPC...(yeiks) I guess that the guy at the trans shops knows this and it is why he is installing new valve body with new EPC for starters.
http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/he...h_upshifts.pdf
Basically (as mentioned) is about the whole pressure control valve in the valve body does not even mention the EPC...(yeiks) I guess that the guy at the trans shops knows this and it is why he is installing new valve body with new EPC for starters.
http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/he...h_upshifts.pdf
03-31-2012, 11:46 AM
#19
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I try to replace the EPC each time I open a trans. They are a known bad part. Don't know of a better one. As for the price, I paid about that price at the dealership.
03-31-2012, 07:07 PM
#20
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Well it is good news overall I think.
Transmission was smooth with no harsh shifts today. No emergency for a rebuild probably for a short while until it gets warmer outside. I drove around on highway and mixed city driving stopping at GM dealer.
So when the time comes, I have made a decision to get a new reman trans from GM.
It comes with a new torque converter. The warranty is N.America 3 year 160,000 km or 96k miles. The dealer is close to my mechanic, which has contracts for many transmissions swaps and the GM dealer will waive the core charge, as they know each other so well. Totally installed will cost about $2400. I know that sounds like a ton, but really the GM warranty is worth it for the long run. I then am confident I am good to go on this land yacht for hopefully years to come.
Transmission was smooth with no harsh shifts today. No emergency for a rebuild probably for a short while until it gets warmer outside. I drove around on highway and mixed city driving stopping at GM dealer.
So when the time comes, I have made a decision to get a new reman trans from GM.
It comes with a new torque converter. The warranty is N.America 3 year 160,000 km or 96k miles. The dealer is close to my mechanic, which has contracts for many transmissions swaps and the GM dealer will waive the core charge, as they know each other so well. Totally installed will cost about $2400. I know that sounds like a ton, but really the GM warranty is worth it for the long run. I then am confident I am good to go on this land yacht for hopefully years to come.
