True V8 Sedan! - GM Forum - Buick, Cadillac, Chev, Olds, GMC & Pontiac chat


Bonneville GXP/ Northstar Powered Cars Discuss your Bonneville GXP and/or any other Northstar powered Olds or Cadillac... Including the 3.5L Twin Cam V6 (Short Star ) 4.0L and 4.6L Northstar V8's. Please use General Chat for non-mechanical issues, and Performance and Brainstorming for improvements.

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Old 04-02-2004, 01:16 AM   #1
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Default True V8 Sedan!

Lets face it guys! Everyone who was praying for a V8 Bonny was wishing for 300+hp and 300+lbs of torque. I love the supercharger, but I've always wanted that extra twighlight STS/M45 V8 power. A large sedan nowadays has to have it or else it better be supercharged or supermodded! If not, then get out of the left lane. I'm waiting for 2005 and 2006. I'm still hoping. Who knows? The Grand Prix GXP is saying supercharged 285hp/torque? I'm getting goose bumps though!
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Old 04-02-2004, 02:28 AM   #2
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Not meaing to be rude, but Ive swear ive seen the content of this post in 4 or 5 others from you today.
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Old 04-02-2004, 08:51 AM   #3
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he wants to be heard
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Old 04-02-2004, 10:12 AM   #4
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OK, Im definantly not wanting to alienate myself, though it will happen. I'm just want to point out something. I was aroound in the 70'* and remember when GM, Ford, Chrysler began their slide from the podium.

It was because they never developed smaller, more effecient and economical cars and engines. Then at the same time most Americans did not want to depart from their beloved V8. So they continued to make the big old tractor tec engines getting poor performance, poor milage and some darn poor styling if I can voice that opinion.

Then came the mid/late 80'* and the B U I C K !!!!!!!!!!!!! V6 began to turn around the ineffeciency of Domestic engines. Creating a still very roomy, but light and well propelled car. That looked sharp as well.

Then comes the 90'* and cars begin to get fat again and heavy and larger, though there is no noticeable difference inside. C A D I L L A C deserves alot of credit for finally developing a good DOHC aluminum V8 following O L D * M O B I L E'* lead from the Quad 4 developed in mid/late 80'*. This engine finally comes what 30 years? after the Europeans and Japanese have long used nothing but OHC and aluminum head engines.

All sounds great so far except for the 30 year delay in tecnology. Fueled by some Americans infatuation with V8'* and pushrods. Then cars and "SUV'*" that are getting nearly as heavy as what we had in say 1973.

My point ? Anyone been watching this gasoline business ? Anyone ever wonder how long we can continue to increase gasoline usage let alone gasoline period ? Anyone care ? Before you get the wrong impression please look at the cars in my signature. Thing is today with this big performance push and larger car push and bigger engine push is SO MUCH reminding me of 1968, 1969, and 1970 when the thing came to a peek and came tumbling down the other side. Right in line with it is rapidly inflating gas prices and Im sure "shortages".

If this happens the Japs and Europeans are right in line to be able to provide small powerful, gas conserving cars while GM is full bore into plans of large, RWD V8 powered cars clear to the end of the decade.

The inability to be able to offer what was needed by money conserving comsumers in the late 70'* and early 80'* is what began the fall of the big three in the first place. Not to mention the quality issues cause by corporate cheapness and scrambling brought on by loss of profits and not being prepared for the gasoline, polution issues.

Im forcasting history repeating itself, and I see it happening this decade. You can turn off all the cylinders you want but your still rotating the engine, pushing the tranny built for the big engine and the increasingly heavy cars. Its still taking nearly one more litre for a domestic engine to produce the power of a import engine.
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Old 04-02-2004, 10:21 AM   #5
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Well said Steve, but I like to think I have a true V8
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Old 04-02-2004, 10:42 AM   #6
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Default Re: True V8 Sedan!

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigd
Everyone who was praying for a V8 Bonny was wishing for 300+hp and 300+lbs of torque.
You don't need a V8 for that kind of power.
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Old 04-02-2004, 11:42 AM   #7
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Yep, ya sure do Jim, you have one of the few Domestic V8'* where bigger is better was not applied. We also know the power the 4.0 could have had too.

Audi A8 4.2 = 335/317, but its a $70,000 car. aluminum body and AWD however, still heavy - 3900lb - - - - - - The bi-turbo version of I believe this same engine in RS6 4.2 litre puts 450/415 for $82,000 . I dont think GM would need an extra 40,000 to get better #'* from smaller motors.

I feel GM needs to concentrate on more output from smaller engine, not continue to persue bigger is easier mentality. I think 4 litre HO V8'* and 3 litre HO V6'* would be more inline with the competition besides being the sensible dirrection to persue.

They also need to start back toward lightening things up some, time for a diet. That will also give better performance numbers in road tests, for braking, handling as well as excelleration.

Similar to what Rogue said "you dont need a V8" or big displacement to make power. I believe the BIGGER train of thought is going to turn around and bite us in the butt again.
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Old 04-03-2004, 11:16 AM   #8
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Well, they may be able to pull it off with conversion to AWD or RWD.

FWD is still cool as it will be an attractive daily driver for 4 season climates.

I still think Chrysler'* getting it right with their 300C and possibly Dodge versions of that sedan. RWD for sunny climates and AWD option for places where winter is not so kind.

I think GM'* priority with future Bonnevilles should be the following:

1.) Clean up the interior and offer classy leather
2.) Start pushing boundaries with styling since boring can be had with Buick and Chevrolet. Look at the new Nissan Maxima, esp. from the rear...talk about bold.
3.) Offer world class amenities like voice GPS/Nav., high tech LED lighting even as headlights (LED headlights are in the prototype phase), Bluetooth, alluring gauge cluster like the new Acura TL.

Just taking care of those three will do miracles for overall appeal.

No need to make it a blazing muscle sedan (get a CTS-v instead). Keep it FWD, leave RWD for the new Caddy STS. Make it ride very nicely. It should give up some speed for class, comfort, and space compared to the Grand Prix GTP/GXP.
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Old 04-04-2004, 12:16 AM   #9
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how come everyone prefers fwd over rwd in the winter? as long as you don't get dumb with rwd its much better in the snow. as long as you have some weight back there for traction.

the acura TL rocks, but the one thing keeping it down is the fwd thing, these fwd cars are getting so powerful the torque steer is insane, friends parents have a new style maxima, he said the the torque steers so bad if you floor it from low speeds you better keep both hands on the wheel.

i like the interior of the bonneville, very fitting of the car. however, with the gxp there going for the classy look over the boy racer look. the interior needs to change too, little less aggresive, little more luxury. HID, NAV with redesigned center console, and some new seats, thats all the gxp needs to compete with the TL/Maxima/g35sedan.

rwd with a 5.3 would be nice. 5.7 would be asking for to much, the gto has to stay the sporty one, 5.3 would be a good move for the bonneville (of course id rather have the 5.7!)
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Old 04-04-2004, 04:38 AM   #10
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I definitely agree that GM needs to do more research into its powertrains. The Hydramatic 4-speed is beginning to show its age in times of 5- and even 6-speed automatic transmissions. Not only will more gears give the car better performance, city mileage can stand to improve a few percent as well.

As far as engines, the Bonneville is a large sedan, and thus needs a large, powerful motor. When you compare other large luxury sedans (BMW 7-Series, Mercedes *-Class, Audi A8, Lexus LS...sorry, I know they're all in a much higher price range, but when you think about it, foreign manufacturers really don't make non-ultra-luxury large sedans that I can think of) they all utilize V8 engines as well. Where I think GM could easily trump the competition is to develop a moderately powerful, yet very economic powerplant. The LS1 and LS6 (and low, LS2 and LS7 coming up) are amazing engines that can develop 300-400HP and push a 3,200 pound Corvette on the highway to nearly 30 miles to the gallon. Surely, not every Bonneville needs 400HP (though a select few of us will never be satiated ), but imagine developing a powerplant that is a little smaller and runs a little leaner than the current LS(X) V8 engines, and maybe puts out a healthy 250-300HP and can still push the Bonneville as far as a Corolla on every gallon of gasoline. The Cadillac CTS-V has the 400HP LS6 and is projected to run 27-28mpg. Now, let'* sacrifice just a dose of power for fuel economy for the environmentally responsible soccer moms, and we have winner. And for those of us who crave the speed and can afford the octane, put all 400 horsies back under the hood.

Something I definitely think all of GM needs to improve on is FIT AND FINISH. If you look at the new Honda Accords, ignore how ugly you may think it is, but look at the seams in the body panels and around the tail lamps. The tolerances are AMAZING for a mass produced car. Meanwhile, the climate control **** on my Bonnie has just snapped off. I love the GXP, and I definitely would like to own one some day, but hearing now that it'* selling for $40,000US, when you compare to the build quality and the features you get, compare to an Acura TL, and you may see why the average consumer will opt for the Acura. Like others had mentioned, GPS, DVD navigation, HID'*, and other goodies would be appreciated for my forty large.

I love my Bonneville, and I really like some of the improvements that GM (ok, more like just Cadillac...and the Corvette group) are making. I sat in a Bonneville GXP at the Philadelphia Auto Show and swore that I would have one some day. But on the other hand, I think GM needs to visit their competitor'* dealerships and drive their competitor'* cars. Then they need to figure out what it is that the American public really wants. It sure as hell isn't a cupholder that snaps off every time I put my Big Gulp in it.
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