this is why rear fill is a bad thing - GM Forum - Buick, Cadillac, Chev, Olds, GMC & Pontiac chat


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Old 02-03-2004, 05:38 PM   #1
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Default this is why rear fill is a bad thing

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Old 02-03-2004, 07:02 PM   #2
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Ok so it is possible to have speakers cancell themselves out by phase variance, this is pretty common once you delve into audio physics. Yes your subs may work a little easier, but if you're going for "audio nirvana" you don't want overpowering bass. If you have no speakers in the rear, you'll have no fluidness from the front speakers to the subs in the rear.

All you'll hear in the front is everything from 20khz-crossover. the rear is everything from crossover down then. He talks about canceling out frequencies but that'* not saving you anythign when you remove the frequencies totally.

I agree whole hardedly that 2 channel music should stay two channel, but you need to bridge the sound from your subwoofers, to your front tweeters.
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Old 02-03-2004, 07:06 PM   #3
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all i gotta say is thats some nasty javascript when u first enter the page :(
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Old 02-03-2004, 07:16 PM   #4
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basicaly what he is saying is that by introducing rear speakers into the car u are only creating a bigger phase variance problem. I disagree with ur reasoning behind the need for rear fill, no bridge is needed, because in a live performance, there isnt any sound coming from behind u, so therefore u dont need a bridge to fill in the gap between the sound in front of u that is there and the sound behind u that isnt there. and bass is very nondirectional, so u dont get as much phase variance with it behind u
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Old 02-03-2004, 08:14 PM   #5
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How many concerts have you been to where you can't hear the reflection of the music off the back wall? None that I can remember. I have also been to outside venues (FPAC & ****) where the sould can be heard reflecting from the landscape. The distance between the rear rear speakers in relation to the front passengers is perfect to recreate this 'echo' effect.

One internet article by who knows who will not replace my 11 years of reading Car Audio & Electronics and Car Stereo Review and doing countless installs myself. (installed my first car stereo for my brother in 1991 when I was 13, havent stopped since) The front should most definately be the more powerful of the 2, but not the only source. A car interior will not recreate the reflections as it is too odd shaped and will not reflect back toward you. Capturing the live experience is more than what is comming from infront of you, it is getting everything that goes with. That is the science of car audio, not just creating the primary source of the sound, but accurately recreate the 'live' experience.

I do agree about the stock locations tho.
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Old 02-03-2004, 08:34 PM   #6
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i never agreed with rear fill anyway now this is why
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Old 02-03-2004, 08:57 PM   #7
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ok i completely phrased this wrong, let me use another example that will show u what i mean when it comes to reflections, in that last example about a live performance, i can see ur point, however when they record cds, they record them in a studio environment, where reflections are minimized, so that there are no recflections or cancellation, they are recorded without any rear fill in mind, because it sounds better that way
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Old 02-03-2004, 09:05 PM   #8
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Quote:
ok i completely phrased this wrong, let me use another example that will show u what i mean when it comes to reflections, in that last example about a live performance, i can see ur point, however when they record cds, they record them in a studio environment, where reflections are minimized, so that there are no recflections or cancellation, they are recorded without any rear fill in mind, because it sounds better that way
But you see, when you're at a concert, the music isn't being played to bounce off of the rear walls. it'* being played to have the best tonal response for everyone. When recordings are made, they are made the same way. All the insturments need to be heard, and all the dynamics need to be done. The difference between listening in a concert hall and the data that'* put on a CD, is the concert music has already interacted with the environment first. The CD is designed to be just the music, bare, and raw, and when you play it back, it'* played thru that environment before it reaches your ears. My speakers will make backround singing seem as if it'* coming from the wall behind you, while the guitar is locked in the middle. People have thought a phone was ringing in different directions then the speakers while watching a movie with them.

I'm onlyfor 2 channel, and 2 speakers. I only have two speakers and a two channel power amp in my room. I don't want 5.1 for music, cause I hate it. My subwoofer is best right there. It'* not too peaky, and it'* not boomy or anything. The response is tight and full. But i can still hear slightly more bass from the right side of my stereo setup. The reason is that bass is omnidirectional yes, but unless it'* playing 50hz-20hz you'll still hear tones that can be localized easily. Most music, even rap, doesn't go past 35-40hz anyways. My stereo will "surround" you as much as any 2 channel stereo could in this equipment range. These B&W can play thigns that sound like they're all around you, and still make a voice image perfectly in the middle.




75% of Hi-Fi is setup setup setup.
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Old 02-03-2004, 09:09 PM   #9
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yes but like u said its setup setup setup that makes the music jump out at u, part of that being no rear fill
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Old 02-03-2004, 09:13 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jachin
yes but like u said its setup setup setup that makes the music jump out at u, part of that being no rear fill
Oh yeah i forgot the car-fi part....

The problem with car audio is, cars suck for sound! Getting speakers in doors to image correctly is hard, getting them to have a great presence, and surround you naturally is nearly impossible. Only a few ways are possbile to do this, and their either expensive, or they have other drawbacks. Do-able yes, but not with stock locations.
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