Factory Airbox on SC engine
01-28-2003, 01:24 AM
#11
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Originally Posted by iRocco
I'd like to put it to bed. I'm certain that CAI would be a good thing, and I'm sure you make a good product. Just trying to get to the meat of what the difference is, in terms of numbers. I can't speak for anyone but myself, but am guessing that it gets asked often because the claims made about such mods are usually pretty general in nature.
I really don't mean to beat a dead horse. I was hoping to learn some CFM rating, or similar comparison. One thing that did strike me when I had it apart was the size and shape of the sensor. Almost looks to me like it would mess with the airflow even if I had a straight pipe from outside the engine bay into the TB. Has anyone used one of those Tb airfoils? I've seen them in Jegs and Summit catalogs, and wondered if they really help.
Again, sorry to keep dredging this up. I'm just trying to get up to speed on it ly don't mean to beat a dead horse. I was hoping to learn some CFM rating, or similar comparison. One thing that did strike me when I had it apart was the size and shape of the sensor. Almost looks to me like it would mess with the airflow even if I had a straight pipe from outside the engine bay into the TB. Has anyone used one of those Tb airfoils? I've seen them in Jegs and Summit catalogs, and wondered if they really help.
Again, sorry to keep dredging this up. I'm just trying to get up to speed on it all. Thanks!
I really don't mean to beat a dead horse. I was hoping to learn some CFM rating, or similar comparison. One thing that did strike me when I had it apart was the size and shape of the sensor. Almost looks to me like it would mess with the airflow even if I had a straight pipe from outside the engine bay into the TB. Has anyone used one of those Tb airfoils? I've seen them in Jegs and Summit catalogs, and wondered if they really help.
Again, sorry to keep dredging this up. I'm just trying to get up to speed on it ly don't mean to beat a dead horse. I was hoping to learn some CFM rating, or similar comparison. One thing that did strike me when I had it apart was the size and shape of the sensor. Almost looks to me like it would mess with the airflow even if I had a straight pipe from outside the engine bay into the TB. Has anyone used one of those Tb airfoils? I've seen them in Jegs and Summit catalogs, and wondered if they really help.
Again, sorry to keep dredging this up. I'm just trying to get up to speed on it all. Thanks!
I am going to try and divorve the stock MAF and put it in my intake. Looks like it can be done by making a new housing for it and extending the wiring harness for it. This would solve alot of CFM problems since it would not block the front of the Throttle Body as much.
01-28-2003, 01:39 AM
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Ok, I'll read up. Problem is, every time I searth tech info, I get an error message. Can anyone email it to me? My email is MFRocco@earthlink.net
01-28-2003, 01:59 AM
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01-28-2003, 08:41 AM
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Thanks bro.
So, as I see it, the key isn't simply volume or velocity, but an accurate reading for the MAF sensor? Makes sense. What doesn't, is why the engineers didn't think of a better design or location for the MAF sensor in the first place.
By the way, there was something that occured to me when I read this tech report:
"One suggestion that was made would be to trim the screen down to a smaller size, and re-install that portion directly in front of the MAF sensor. "
If you do this, won't the air just follow the path of least resistance and give you an inaccurate read anyhow?
So, as I see it, the key isn't simply volume or velocity, but an accurate reading for the MAF sensor? Makes sense. What doesn't, is why the engineers didn't think of a better design or location for the MAF sensor in the first place.
By the way, there was something that occured to me when I read this tech report:
"One suggestion that was made would be to trim the screen down to a smaller size, and re-install that portion directly in front of the MAF sensor. "
If you do this, won't the air just follow the path of least resistance and give you an inaccurate read anyhow?
01-28-2003, 12:23 PM
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From the Techinfo Section:
Hector, this goes against what you are saying (or you are going against what the techinfo section is saying). Anyways, I know you have tried things before making a final product (I remember your discertation on why V6'* do not benefit from true dual exhausts).
I share iRocco'* concern (or query) that the box, when used with the intake, would produce a benefit, if for nothing more than a heat shield. I guess I am asking if you could relate what you know or suspect on the benefits of an airbox if any.
Thanks,
Jay
Long and Short of it all:
The best bet is a custom intake with a K&N style cone filter, and a heat shield or CAI. Currently, the only custom intake made for the Bonneville is the ADTR. www.angryducktofuracing.com
The Thrasher CAI for the GP'* will not fit in the Series 1 or Series 2 powered Bonnevilles. Making one yourself, or waiting a short time for ADTR or Domestic Performance www.domesticperformance.com to market one would be the only options.
The best bet is a custom intake with a K&N style cone filter, and a heat shield or CAI. Currently, the only custom intake made for the Bonneville is the ADTR. www.angryducktofuracing.com
The Thrasher CAI for the GP'* will not fit in the Series 1 or Series 2 powered Bonnevilles. Making one yourself, or waiting a short time for ADTR or Domestic Performance www.domesticperformance.com to market one would be the only options.
I share iRocco'* concern (or query) that the box, when used with the intake, would produce a benefit, if for nothing more than a heat shield. I guess I am asking if you could relate what you know or suspect on the benefits of an airbox if any.
Thanks,
Jay
01-28-2003, 01:49 PM
#16
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I think the real question here is about the STOCK airbox and delivery tube. Hector'* intake will perform great, but should be better with a CUSTOM CAI also. I just woke up, so I might have missed what you were getting at, Jay. I'm a bit fuzzy right now!
I personally had a big noticeable boost in performance when I ventilated my stock airbox, but the flow is still so turbulent, I can't remove my MAF screen. I know that those that removed their screens felt the difference too. My main reasons for switching to the ADTR are to take advantage of Hector'* development in performance, and to enable me to take out the screen.
The idea to re-insert a piece of the screen just for the MAF sensor was just an idea. Nobody has tried this yet. I wouldn't dare do it to a SC model, but it might be somthing to try for the NA. It'* just a theory, but an interesting one.
There is another underlying reason, too. I want higher velocity to help with my water injection. I think I'll have a greater evap rate with the ADTR than I do with the modified stock setup.
I personally had a big noticeable boost in performance when I ventilated my stock airbox, but the flow is still so turbulent, I can't remove my MAF screen. I know that those that removed their screens felt the difference too. My main reasons for switching to the ADTR are to take advantage of Hector'* development in performance, and to enable me to take out the screen.
The idea to re-insert a piece of the screen just for the MAF sensor was just an idea. Nobody has tried this yet. I wouldn't dare do it to a SC model, but it might be somthing to try for the NA. It'* just a theory, but an interesting one.
There is another underlying reason, too. I want higher velocity to help with my water injection. I think I'll have a greater evap rate with the ADTR than I do with the modified stock setup.
01-28-2003, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by willwren
I think the real question here is about the STOCK airbox and delivery tube. Hector'* intake will perform great, but should be better with a CUSTOM CAI also. I just woke up, so I might have missed what you were getting at, Jay. I'm a bit fuzzy right now!
My question is: Why don't aftermarket intakes (straight tube/cone filter) typically come with an air box?
The Thrasher and SLP models both do. However, both also appear to retain the stock or provide an accordian type hose to the throttle body. I undestand the goal to get away from that tube to straighten out the air intake, but the temperature benefits from an airbox seem to still be a valid concern.
Jay
01-28-2003, 09:53 PM
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I had an idea for a sleeper system. I was going to get the ducting and airbox from a salvaged car and experiment with installing a liner of some kind, to smooth the airway, and fabricate some additional porting on the front of the box, with maybe a duct going behind the airdam.
I'll let you know what I come up with. Its really for fun, cause I ordered an intake from Ty already. Sorry hector. I promise to throw some business your way soon.
Also on the way is the Available "High End Security System" from GM. I'm hoping this is plug-n-play, and that it is a decent alarm. I'll keep you posted.
I'll let you know what I come up with. Its really for fun, cause I ordered an intake from Ty already. Sorry hector. I promise to throw some business your way soon.
Also on the way is the Available "High End Security System" from GM. I'm hoping this is plug-n-play, and that it is a decent alarm. I'll keep you posted.
01-30-2003, 10:51 PM
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OK, I admit my 4" PVC covered with silver reflecto insulation isn't the prettiest intake but it'* performance that counts and I'm still experimenting.
You can view the pics of it over in the other Bonne club forum.
When someone has developed a proper 4" metal tube and heat sheild I will probably buy it.
ADTR has the right idea with the smooth flow tube, but I feel that reducing down to 3" is more restrictive and they don't yet offer a heat shield.
Without the heat shield, I was recording cone temps of over 130 F with 50 F outside temps. With my crude shield the temp dropped to just over 80F. That'* a 50 F drop
It made a noticeable improvement in pull.
My next trial will be to remove the throttle body inlet screen.
How will I know if removing it negatively affects the MAF readings :?:
Rough idle only :?:
My fear is high rpm lean mixture and potential engine damage :(
You can view the pics of it over in the other Bonne club forum.
When someone has developed a proper 4" metal tube and heat sheild I will probably buy it.
ADTR has the right idea with the smooth flow tube, but I feel that reducing down to 3" is more restrictive and they don't yet offer a heat shield.
Without the heat shield, I was recording cone temps of over 130 F with 50 F outside temps. With my crude shield the temp dropped to just over 80F. That'* a 50 F drop
It made a noticeable improvement in pull.
My next trial will be to remove the throttle body inlet screen.
How will I know if removing it negatively affects the MAF readings :?:
Rough idle only :?:
My fear is high rpm lean mixture and potential engine damage :(
01-30-2003, 11:29 PM
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All I know is, the idle is only slightly different. I am ordering a new one, since someone bent a bunch of the honeycomb fins on the one I took out. It doesn't seem worth the potential damage from what it sounds like, for such a small gain.
Word (from a local speed shop) is that Domestic Performance is working on a cold air box for our cars, which will have the smooth free flow we all crave. Ty, can you tell us anything?
Word (from a local speed shop) is that Domestic Performance is working on a cold air box for our cars, which will have the smooth free flow we all crave. Ty, can you tell us anything?