Water in UIM ??? - Page 3 - GM Forum - Buick, Cadillac, Chev, Olds, GMC & Pontiac chat


1992-1999 Series I L27 (1992-1994 SE,SLE, SSE) & Series II L36 (1995-1999 SE, SSE, SLE) and common problems for the Series I and II L67 (all supercharged models 92-99) Including Olds 88's, Olds LSS's and Buick Lesabres Please use General Chat for non-mechanical issues, and Performance and Brainstorming for improvements.

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Old 09-16-2006, 09:54 PM   #21
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Its a black o-ring, was able to find one. If i remember there were two. The one i found was the larger one.

I will dig up the fel-pro LIM gasket on the web to see if this was part of their kit. I diffently know it was not part of the UIM kit. I did a check when i received it from UPS to ensure all was there. Unless it fall out of the new UIM gasket.

I reviewed my old UIM gasket and it'* different then what you have. All the holes are surrounded by the orange gasket. I check both sides and there the same.

I will pull out the new UIM tomorrow and see what going on.

One last note, what do you think about the A/C pully. Should i replace it and can it be DIY??
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Old 09-17-2006, 12:24 AM   #22
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If the O rings came with the UIM gasket or the upper intake, they may be for the PCV. One would be roughly the diameter of a nickel and goes around the PCV valve, and the other one quite a bit larger to seal the top of the where the PCV valve goes. Or, are they the same size?
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Old 09-17-2006, 12:27 AM   #23
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That doesn't explain the coolant leak around the EGR?????
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Old 09-17-2006, 12:47 AM   #24
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No, it certainly doesn't. I'm wondering about the TB gasket there.

Edit - Did you use the new TB gasket that came with the kit? How did it look when you pulled it off? Was it pinched anywhere? Was it tightened down well, in particular the lower left that can be tough to get at?

What Bill is wondering about is shown in Figure 3 in the APN instructions.
http://www.automotivepartsnetwork.co...tallation.html

Those 2 black rings near the EGR stovepipe. Could those be the two that you were speaking of? If those are missing...as Bill said...you'll have quite the leak there.
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Old 09-17-2006, 11:50 AM   #25
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Name:  install_figure3.jpg
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Looking at this picture of the gasket in figure 3 of the APN instructions linked above, it appears that if the o-ring inserts around the coolant passages to the throttle body were not installed, that there would be a huge coolant leak to the exterior of the engine. Unless I am missing something (possible), there is not a path from those coolant bores to the vacuum side of the UIM if the UIM and TB gaskets are installed and holding.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mysterio
Do you think i might still have a leak even though the coolant level has been steady for 7 days?
If the coolant level is not dropping, it could be very well, as Dick suggested, that the coolant seen in the UIM resulted from the disassembly. Especially if the coolant were not drained from the radiator to lower the level of coolant in the engine. And even when the coolant is drained, a small quantity of coolant in the throttle body typically spills out when a disassembly is done. With those o-ring inserts missing, the coolant level would definitely drop, and there should be coolant all over the exhaust crossover and the top of the tranny. It just doesn't seem likely to be the problem.

It is NOT typical for the coolant to spill into the UIM when the TB is removed when the coolant is drained. The residual coolant usually just drops down onto the top of the trans. If the TB were removed without draining coolant, perhaps with some residual pressure in the system while it was still warm, then the coolant may have sprayed into the UIM as the TB bolts were undone.

But with no coolant leak for 7 days, those inserts must be in place.

To make sure the coolant is not leaking somewhere, the coolant level should be checked in both the radiator and the expansion tank. Keep in mind that when everything is sealed properly, the typical L36 will take a few coolant operating cycles to purge itself of air following a re-fill, during which time the level of coolant in the recovery tank (but not the radiator) will drop. If you can verify that the coolant level is not falling, you do not have a leak.

There is a possibility that there was a defective part from APN, either a faulty UIM or a malformed gasket. This is not likely, but possible. To reassure yourself that there is no leak around the stovepipe, you could drop the coolant level by siphoning the radiator to the bottom and pulling the TB again. With the coolant drained, loosen the bottom two TB bolts first to encourage any residual coolant to drop onto the trans. If the stovepipe gap is dry, you are good to go as far as the UIM is concerned. But, again, if there is no coolant leak, there is no reason to go to this extra effort.
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Old 09-17-2006, 12:45 PM   #26
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Good points. And your are right. I did not drain the coolant out when disconnecting th TB.

I will follow the instructions tonight and let you know. What is the torque for the TB?
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Old 09-17-2006, 12:57 PM   #27
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In reviewing the APN picture, I never seperated the UIM gasket as it is illustrated. The kit came with the UIM and Gasket already assembled on the UIM. After cleaning everything, i placed the UIM (as is) to the LIM and tighten it to the torque specs and the tightening sequence as per APN instructions. No RTV where initially put on UIM Gasket nor the TB Gasket. The side of the UIM had a black TB gasket already attached to the UIM. So did the same, installed the TB and tighten it (no torque).

Cheers,
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Old 09-17-2006, 08:12 PM   #28
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OK. I pulled the TB as per instructions and there is no leak. I guess not draining the coolant was the cause.

Anyways, whats interesting is that after putting everything back the engine ran perfect. No hestitation or sluggish feeling on the hwy. I parked the car for about 1 hour and then took it out and all the problem had re-occured. Hestitation at acceleration and becoming to sluggish (pressing the gas and nothing). What is interesting is that when it was running fine, when i rev it upto 3000rpm, i got some back fire when it settled down to 900 rpm. Now there is no backfire.

On another note, yesterday when I took out the TB for cleaning, I did not disconnect the battery cable and only removed the sensors on the TB and Airhose sensor. After yesturdays cleaning the car ran with the above issues.

Today, to determine if the UIM was leaking, I pulled the fuel pump fuse,disconnected the battery, drained the coolant, disconnected the fuel injector electrical, removed the MAP, and PCV valve (in preparation to remove the UIM), removed the hoses connected to the back of the UIM. When i pulled the TB and noticed that there were no further leaks. I decised that there was no need to fiddle around with the UIM and reconnected everything back.. Added coolant, performed the bleeding of the coolant. Topped up the coolant reserve. Perform another visual and all looked good. No leaks from the TB, all hoses were validated. Also noticed that the hiss noise from the AC clutch was not present (will it was off). Had the car idle for about 20 minutes. Took it out for about 10 minutes and ran fine. As i said after about 30 mins, took it out again and it sucked.

In reading my haynes manual it talks about the PCM defaulting when information from sensor are not received. Could this be happening?? I am total lost with problem.

H>E>L>P>>>>
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Old 09-17-2006, 10:14 PM   #29
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I wish I could tell you what specifically is causing your problem, but I cannot. Intermittent hesitation could be caused by a lot of stuff. Maybe someone who has had similar symptoms will chime in and help you.

Here are some possibilities from my '95 FSM:

Backfire:

Check ignition coil output voltage
Check spark plugs
Check spark plug wires for crossfire

Lack of power, sluggish or spongy:

Restricted fuel filter
Fuel pressure
Contaminated fuel
Check secondary voltage (nice fat spark on all spark plugs)
Knock sensor for false retard due to mechanical noise

Hesitation, sag, stumble:

Check throttle position sensor for binding or sticking. Voltage should incease at a steady rate as throttle is moved toward wide open (WOT)
Heated oxygen sensor ground (corroded threads in exhaust manifold)
Fuel pressure
Contaminated fuel
Evap canister purge system for proper operation
Fuel injectors
Spark plugs
Ignition control module ground (mounting bolts)
Generator output voltage
Air leak between MAF sensor and throttle body

That'* a lot of possibilities. But plugs (and by inference, plug wires) appear in all three lists. How long since plugs and wires were changed? Did you remove the MAF sensor from the TB? Did you carefully clean the tiny, expensive wires with a Q-tip and alcohol? And was the o-ring in good shape on the MAF sensor?

You could go through this list checking all the stuff you can check for free, and cleaning and tightening both ends of your battery cables and grounds for the ICM and PCM. That will only cost you time. Look at the list and think if you might have bumped or dropped or disconnected any of the parts of any of the listed systems.
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Old 09-17-2006, 10:22 PM   #30
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Plugs and wire were replaced a couple of months back.

MAF was cleaned yesturday as per your describtion. Will print the list and do some measurements. I also tried the propane test and nothing. No difference in idle when i moved the propane around the LIM, hoses, TB, etc.

Trying to get an OBD2 monitor to see whats going on. Need to replace 02 sensor in all cases.

Will let you know. Again, thanks,

Cheers,
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