Water in cylinders - UPDATE - its back on the road - GM Forum - Buick, Cadillac, Chev, Olds, GMC & Pontiac chat


1992-1999 Series I L27 (1992-1994 SE,SLE, SSE) & Series II L36 (1995-1999 SE, SSE, SLE) and common problems for the Series I and II L67 (all supercharged models 92-99) Including Olds 88's, Olds LSS's and Buick Lesabres Please use General Chat for non-mechanical issues, and Performance and Brainstorming for improvements.

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Old 11-20-2007, 03:28 AM   #1
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Default Water in cylinders - UPDATE - its back on the road

Hello all...its been a while. Bufford has the dreaded uim issue. I've never attempted this repair before, so please bare with me. I've read all info in the techinfo page. I'll be going with the APN kit. I'll also be replacing the plugs, wires and thermostat. A few questions - they might seem obvious, but I want to make sure I do this right...

1. I had to pull the plugs because the cylinders had coolant in them. I turned the motor over and coolant shot out the plug holes. What do I do to insure I have all the coolant out? Do I need to squirt anything down in there to displace the coolant/water ? (Btw, The engine did not lockup while it was running, it would not start after it was turned off.)

2. Nothing in the oil as far as coolant goes. I will be changing the oil and filter. Do I need to be concerned with anything there ? The LIM was totally full of coolant when I removed the UIM. I've cleaned all the coolant out of the lim and wire wheeled the uim mating surface.

3. Is it REALLY necessary to replace the o-rings on the injectors? I pulled the top clip off of the injectors and removed the fuel rail that way. The injectors are actually still seated in the LIM.

Thanks for any and all help. 172,000 miles now.
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Old 11-20-2007, 08:48 AM   #2
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Sounds like you got the water out as quickly as possible which is good. You shouldn't need to spray anything in..although a little oil in each and then spin the motor a little to lube them up wouldn't hurt.

Changing the oil is suggested, water shouldn't be getting past the rings.

At 172, I'd suggest doing the injector rings. They are low cost and easy. Plus you will want the injectors in the fuel rail for reassembly. Trying to insert them into the rail when they are on the intake will be quite hard.

When you put your coolant elbow and injector o rings in..lightly lube them wiith vasoline or grease to prevent binding and nicking the rings.

When putting the LIM gaskets in place (use the GM aluminum framed ones) make sure you put a dab of RTV in the corners where the heads meet the block, put gaskets in place..then another dab in all corners again.

I'd also suggest the GM pipe thread sealant with PTFE on the threads of the lower intake manifold when you reassemble. Just a dab on each should seal them from oil wicking.
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Old 11-20-2007, 08:53 AM   #3
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I agree with all of the above. On the elbow, I like to use a little water-pump safe RTV to lube the rings and provide a more positive seal.

Change the oil after about 20-50 miles. (put cheap stuff in there when you're done with the top end)

Alot of moisture will remain in the engine, and it can circulate back to the oil. In addition, you'll dislodge some gunk and grime into the lifter valley doing this work. That''ll get into the oil as well.

Water is heavier than oil. This is another strong reason to change the oil soon (when it'* hot), as you can get it to mix with the oil somewhat by running the engine and driving, then immediately drain it.
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Old 11-20-2007, 08:58 AM   #4
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Bill.....With the reminder about oil being heavier than oil. Would you suggest dropping the pan to get the last 1/4" of fluid out of the bottom?
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Old 11-20-2007, 09:11 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillBoost37
Bill.....With the reminder about oil being heavier than oil. Would you suggest dropping the pan to get the last 1/4" of fluid out of the bottom?
Oil is about the same density as oil. Very close.

(sorry, had to do it).

I've never been in this situation. The L36'* I've done were all pre-failure rescues. I would expect though, that on ramps, tilting the car with blocks (plan this out ahead of time), that water would get stirred up in a short drive and come out pretty completely.

I'd have to assume that even after settling some after the first failure, any water that was under the oil in the pan might come out the same way.

Curious? If the oil is drained (if not, drain it now, it should be for safety) take an old pump sprayer from a windex bottle, stick it in the drain hole guide the bottom of the tbe to the lowest part of the oil pan and pump.

See what comes out.
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Old 11-20-2007, 09:22 AM   #6
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Here ya go Captain Contradiction... (I had to ...too)

Quote:
Originally Posted by willwren
Water is heavier than oil.
Quote:
Originally Posted by willwren
Oil is about the same density as oil. Very close. (sorry, had to do it).
While we jest.. having removed the oil pans various times there is a good healty 1/4-3/8 of an inch of fluid left in the bottom. Typically I would drain and pull the pan on ramps. The sprayer is a good idea as the gasket for the oil pan is a pain and costs ~$40
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Old 11-20-2007, 09:24 AM   #7
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I think we both need a monster this morning.

Oil pan gaskets are intended to be re-usable, and usually are. But the sprayer will satisfy your curiosity. I think if I found water with the sprayer, I'd drop the pan. It'* fairly easy.
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Old 11-20-2007, 09:31 AM   #8
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96-99 was reusable? It'* a hard plastic windage tray with barely any sealing material in it. (Looks a lot like a LIM gasket.

BTW... pic sent to WillWren'* phone.
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Old 11-20-2007, 10:56 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillBoost37
Sounds like you got the water out as quickly as possible which is good. You shouldn't need to spray anything in..although a little oil in each and then spin the motor a little to lube them up wouldn't hurt.

Changing the oil is suggested, water shouldn't be getting past the rings.

At 172, I'd suggest doing the injector rings. They are low cost and easy. Plus you will want the injectors in the fuel rail for reassembly. Trying to insert them into the rail when they are on the intake will be quite hard.

When you put your coolant elbow and injector o rings in..lightly lube them wiith vasoline or grease to prevent binding and nicking the rings.

When putting the LIM gaskets in place (use the GM aluminum framed ones) make sure you put a dab of RTV in the corners where the heads meet the block, put gaskets in place..then another dab in all corners again.

I'd also suggest the GM pipe thread sealant with PTFE on the threads of the lower intake manifold when you reassemble. Just a dab on each should seal them from oil wicking.
Bill,

thanks for the help.....I wasn't planning on replacing the lim gaskets. I dont think their bad. I'll go ahead and replace the o-rings for the injectors. I'm assuming there'* 2 sets of rings right? One that goes around the part of the injector goes down into the lim, and the other o-rings where the injector connects to the fuel rail. (told you I was a rookie ) or is that wookie?

Is there a particular RTV I need If I pull the LIM? There'* different colors right? What color do I need.

PFTE ? uummmmmm whats that?

Today, I'm going to order parts and clean up the other parts and inspect some more. I'm probably going to stay with the 195 stat. It can get cold in Champaign every now and then.

Do I reuse the TB mounting bolts, or do new ones come with the UIM kit?

Thanks for hanging in there with me. I'm going to need some hand holding for sure. Now I know what my PC users feel like
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Old 11-20-2007, 11:03 AM   #10
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Every Wookie finds out that they will want to replace their LIM gaskets. Please do it while you are this far in. I pulled my composite (your current ones) replacements after 20K and they were showing signs of problems. Your car will thank you for the attention.

2 sets of rings..yes.. top and bottom. They are the same ring for both areas. Ensure when you order that you get 12 rings. Most of the fel pro packages contain 4 rings per package.

RTV.. the lower gaskets usually come with a small tube of black RTV. If not..get yourself a tube of Permatex Ultra Copper. That is the only tube that has a spot in my toolbox. Nothing wrong with the black though.

Bolts should be in the new manifold. (Nuts won't be).

I usually pick up a couple cans of brake cleaner. it'* great for final gasket surface cleaning to remove any oils etc. I spray a rag and wipe until the rag comes back clean.
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