Trans going into Gear problem. *Update - Video * - Page 5 - GM Forum - Buick, Cadillac, Chev, Olds, GMC & Pontiac chat


1992-1999 Series I L27 (1992-1994 SE,SLE, SSE) & Series II L36 (1995-1999 SE, SSE, SLE) and common problems for the Series I and II L67 (all supercharged models 92-99) Including Olds 88's, Olds LSS's and Buick Lesabres Please use General Chat for non-mechanical issues, and Performance and Brainstorming for improvements.

Reply
 
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12-23-2006, 01:59 PM   #41
Senior Member
True Car Nut
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NEBF:06,07 | NYBF:06,07 | ONBF:06,07 | CNBF:06 & more............
Posts: 8,029
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
bandit is on a distinguished road
Default

Yup i have one, im going to look at it then i get home, i was useing it before to try to figure out what that one loose line went to.
bandit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2006, 11:16 PM   #42
Member
Posts like a V-Tak
 
HotZ28's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 38
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
HotZ28 is on a distinguished road
Default

I really hate to be the one to keep giving you the bad news, but all symptoms continue to point to the internal lip seal to the input clutch in the input housing leaking. I know you would like to find a simpler, less expensive solution; however, there is no other option in this particular case. The loose fitting metal line you pointed out goes to the accumulator. The accumulator is used only as a “shock absorber” to soften shifts between gears. If your pump was weak, you would have low line pressure all the time, not just when cold! A low line pressure from the pump, would cause slipping in the clutch packs and would be noticeable in all gears, especially when warmed up. A leaking filter seal ring, (the one you just checked or changed again) would cause pump cavitations and starvation, but would be more prevalent at higher rpm at full line pressure. Now, after the labor and expense of going there, you know that was not the problem either!

I will offer another suggestion that might buy you some time before a rebuild. On extremely cold mornings, (below 30 deg for me) start your car and let it idle for fifteen minutes to help warm the fluid.(It could take longer depending on how cold)! After the warm-up period, shift to reverse or first gear immediately. Do not select any other gear to begin with. Let the car sit in reverse or first gear until the gear engages. (Keep foot on brake while in gear). If you live in a colder climate, where every morning is below 32 deg, you may have to do this every day until the temps start to warm up!

BTW, GM did redesign the internal lip seals and the new design has proven very effective in eliminating the, “Morning Sickness” syndrome! I believe about all the rebuild kits available now, have the new design seals. One final though; the internal seal leak will appear without warning and are sometimes brought about with a fresh fluid change or flush! :(
HotZ28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2006, 12:04 AM   #43
Senior Member
True Car Nut
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NEBF:06,07 | NYBF:06,07 | ONBF:06,07 | CNBF:06 & more............
Posts: 8,029
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
bandit is on a distinguished road
Default

HotZ28 The weird thing is that this has Never happened Untill i changed the fluid and filter.

And theres not way im letting it warm up for 15mins, that work cost me like $500 this winter, I live in NY

Any way iv been able to get it into gear every day it does it by just putting it into many diffrent gears and putting it into 1st and tapping the gas.

And again the weird part about this is that this has Never don this before, only after i did the Fluid and filter change
bandit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2006, 12:39 AM   #44
Member
Posts like a V-Tak
 
HotZ28's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 38
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
HotZ28 is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bandit
HotZ28 The weird thing is that this has Never happened Untill i changed the fluid and filter.
And again the weird part about this is that this has Never don this before, only after i did the Fluid and filter change
Quote:
One final though; the internal seal leaks will appear without warning and are sometimes brought about with a fresh fluid change or flush! :(
HotZ28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2006, 12:48 AM   #45
Senior Member
True Car Nut
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NEBF:06,07 | NYBF:06,07 | ONBF:06,07 | CNBF:06 & more............
Posts: 8,029
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
bandit is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HotZ28
Quote:
Originally Posted by bandit
HotZ28 The weird thing is that this has Never happened Untill i changed the fluid and filter.
And again the weird part about this is that this has Never don this before, only after i did the Fluid and filter change
Quote:
One final though; the internal seal leaks will appear without warning and are sometimes brought about with a fresh fluid change or flush! :(
Opps

Missed that part
bandit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2006, 03:58 PM   #46
Member
Posts like a V-Tak
 
HotZ28's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 38
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
HotZ28 is on a distinguished road
Default

A few more things FYI. If you can get the transmission pressure tested while cold, you would probably see line pressure below spec. until it warms up. Specification at idle are, 74-85 in D4, D3, D2, 79-95 in P,R,N, and 158-170 in 1st.

While visiting a friend’* high volume transmission shop the other day, I saw them pushing a 94 LeSabre, with the 4T60E, into the shop from the parking lot, where it had been sitting since the day before. The car had 135K on it. (Ambient Temp that morning was 40 deg.) The first test they performed was a pressure test and this particular Trans measured only 45 psig in all gear ranges except low, which read 115 psig. The owner instructed the technician to, “Pull it out”. To my surprise, 45 min later, the Trans was out of the car and on the workbench partially dissembled! Observing the parts on the bench, you could see the “lip seals” were brittle and crumbled apart when removed. Usually, the first thing on the agenda at a good transmission shop is a pressure test!

BTW, while there, I ask the technician why they were rebuilding the Trans. His reply was; “This time of the year, we do about four or five of these a week, because when it gets cold, they don’t like to shift into gear when first started”. I then asked him, “Why don’t they shift into gear”? He replied; “Low line pressure, internal seals leaking”!


Here is another suggestion you might try. Disconnect the vacuum hose to the modulator and plug it. With the hose removed from the modulator, the line pressures should go to the specified maximums and your Trans should shift into gear, soon as engaged. Note: This is not a cure for the problem; it is simply another easy test, to verify if you have low line pressure. Remember, the vacuum modulator controls the pressure of the transmission fluid and in conjunction with the accumulator, controls the firmness of the shifts. Try this & post back!
HotZ28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2006, 04:10 PM   #47
BANNED
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 0
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
banned3800 is on a distinguished road
Default

Bandit I hate to get off topic here...

But HotZ28 I have a question for you...

I change my fluid and filter on my 4T60-E at least once a year and have a large cooler( Live In Florida )... Will changing the fluid, keeping the additve package almost fresh help keep the seals soft? Or will they deteriorate over time?

I have 153k on my very abused 4T60-E... And even when it does get cold( 28-29F if we're lucky ) The trans goes right into gear with no issues...

The exact same goes for my 4T60... No issues at all...

My buddies 92 Park Ave with the 4T60-E is at almost 170k and it shifts smoother than mine ever has... No issues there either..

Ant thoughts?

also My 4T60-E runs between 150-170F depending on the weather..

__________________
Best Car Insurance | Auto Protection Today | FREE Trade-In Quote
banned3800 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2006, 08:56 PM   #48
Member
Posts like a V-Tak
 
HotZ28's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 38
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
HotZ28 is on a distinguished road
Default

From what I can gather, age, heat and lack of regular maintenance (fluid & filter) all can contribute to the failure. When looking at the failed seals, they are brown (almost black) and brittle. As mentioned earlier, GM recognized the original seals were a problem and redesigned them. Most additives contain a “petroleum distillate” and will aid in keeping the seals “soft”. As you know, most people wait until they start having problems before they change the fluid & filter or install “additives”. Once the problem starts, it is too late!

I remember on one occasion, seeing a set of seals from a 95 Regal 4T60E with 80K on the clock. The new owner bought the car with 70K miles and had hopes of a long & happy relationship with his Trans. He had the Trans fluid & filter changed and added Lucas additive @ 75K. Apparently, the original owner never had the fluid changed! About 5K after the service, it started loosing line pressure. The new fluid & additive did soften the seals, in fact, when removed, the seal “lips” were brown, cracked & almost slimy, they were so soft. Unfortunately, the service was too late! The seals were already hardened & brittle before the service.

I would assume that if you have been doing regular maintenance since you have owned the car, you could expect a longer life from your transmission. Of course, when the problem appears, it is without warning. There is an old Chinese proverb that says; "Tranny good one day, next day Tranny suck"!
HotZ28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2006, 09:12 PM   #49
BANNED
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 0
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
banned3800 is on a distinguished road
Default

Thanks for that answer...

I Have had the car for a long long time... And I have been anal about the fluid and filter changes as I am rough on the car.... Before I added the cooler I used to change the fluid in the spring and the fall, just in an effort to keep the fluid from being dirty or oxodised... The same goes for my 4T60... Its actually due for a change now, But I'll get to that doon...

When I yank the pans its always amazing how clean they stay..

But I do have to say 177k on a FWD trans is pretty good... Its had a long life.. And if memory serves the 94-95 60-E had a few updates to correct for the issues with the 91-93 60-E'*..

It sure is looking like Bandit may be looking for another 94-95 60-E .... The 94-95 used the exact same PCM and I believe that wiring was the same as well so the tranny connector should be identical...

Bandit are you going to try and get it fixed or look for another unit( lower milage ) from a U pull It?

__________________
Best Car Insurance | Auto Protection Today | FREE Trade-In Quote
banned3800 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2006, 09:39 PM   #50
Senior Member
True Car Nut
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NEBF:06,07 | NYBF:06,07 | ONBF:06,07 | CNBF:06 & more............
Posts: 8,029
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
bandit is on a distinguished road
Default

For now im just going to ride it out for a while cuz i dont have cra for money to do anything and its my only car so i need it every day :(

Over the next week or so im going to talk to a trans shop to see what they think and if they have an other suggestions

In the end, what i want to do is get a SSEi for the summer and then get a Yard trans for me SE and put that in my self while i use the SSEi in the summer for work and stuff
bandit is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
FYI if you lose 4th gear / no fourth gear / no 4th gear caminated2k 2000-2005 6 07-24-2005 11:26 PM
Problem when going up hills.. Gear heads please help!!!! matt95ssei 1992-1999 10 01-16-2005 09:32 PM
89 LE: Stutter right before shifting into second gear Punkrulz 1987-1991 3 12-29-2004 03:19 PM
First gear shifts into 2nd around 5k RPM's? Punkrulz 1987-1991 3 06-17-2004 10:36 PM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:07 AM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.