more problems
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From: Climax Springs, Missouri
sorry to dig this up again...
could it still be igntion related even if the plugs arent fouled? it doesnt do it all the time, it only does it when the engine is bogged down(pulling a hill in OD) or when im really getting on it...and both of those circumstances have been happening less because of the problems..
i hate to spend the cash on plug wires or coil packs if they arent necessary, but i also hate not having my car running like a top...all of the visible vacuums lines seem to be just fine, and the engine runs smooth at idle and even when cruising....im almost beginning to think its transmission related
could it still be igntion related even if the plugs arent fouled? it doesnt do it all the time, it only does it when the engine is bogged down(pulling a hill in OD) or when im really getting on it...and both of those circumstances have been happening less because of the problems..
i hate to spend the cash on plug wires or coil packs if they arent necessary, but i also hate not having my car running like a top...all of the visible vacuums lines seem to be just fine, and the engine runs smooth at idle and even when cruising....im almost beginning to think its transmission related
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Are these wires original or have they been replaced before?
A few checks, as mentioned...
First check the wires where they are attached to and ride the fuel rail...
Notice in the pic above I have one wire wrapped in wire loom... Just about every time I had an issue with a plug wire it had to do with that wire rubbing on the fuel rail... Also where you see my fingers, you'll want to make sure the wires aren't rubbing or Ozoning...
Also on the top of the intake where the wires run across the top of the plenum, they will also sit on the fuel rail... These wires should have wire loom on them from the factory...
Check the vacume lines at the rear of the plenum, these will be the brake booster and AC system vac lines...
Check the vack lines at the throttle body, and fuel pressure regulator..
Also check the vac lines running to the Trans Modulator, and the second line running to the EVAP canister...
Here is the EVAP canister, you'll want to check those lines too... But your'* should be burried under the PCM..
My guess is plug wires as well, But I'm not there to see what its doing either... It does seem as if you are describing an ignition related problem... May be a bad plug wire or it could be a bad coil...
When the engine is under load, say OD at 60 mph and you push on the throttle a bit which adds more load, any missfire can become very pronounced...
These cars use a waste spark method, 2 cylinders on one coil, and both cylinders are fired at the same time, the cylinder on the exahust stroke doesn't need as much power to fire the plug as the cylinder on the compression stork so all of the remaining power( most of it really ) goes to the cylinder on the compression stroke...
Its very important that everything ignition wise is functioning properly for these cars to run good...
Good Luck...
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A few checks, as mentioned...
First check the wires where they are attached to and ride the fuel rail...
Notice in the pic above I have one wire wrapped in wire loom... Just about every time I had an issue with a plug wire it had to do with that wire rubbing on the fuel rail... Also where you see my fingers, you'll want to make sure the wires aren't rubbing or Ozoning...
Also on the top of the intake where the wires run across the top of the plenum, they will also sit on the fuel rail... These wires should have wire loom on them from the factory...
Check the vacume lines at the rear of the plenum, these will be the brake booster and AC system vac lines...
Check the vack lines at the throttle body, and fuel pressure regulator..
Also check the vac lines running to the Trans Modulator, and the second line running to the EVAP canister...
Here is the EVAP canister, you'll want to check those lines too... But your'* should be burried under the PCM..
My guess is plug wires as well, But I'm not there to see what its doing either... It does seem as if you are describing an ignition related problem... May be a bad plug wire or it could be a bad coil...
When the engine is under load, say OD at 60 mph and you push on the throttle a bit which adds more load, any missfire can become very pronounced...
These cars use a waste spark method, 2 cylinders on one coil, and both cylinders are fired at the same time, the cylinder on the exahust stroke doesn't need as much power to fire the plug as the cylinder on the compression stork so all of the remaining power( most of it really ) goes to the cylinder on the compression stroke...
Its very important that everything ignition wise is functioning properly for these cars to run good...
Good Luck...
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Thread Starter
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From: Climax Springs, Missouri
my wires dont really have anything on them, with the exception of the little guide thingies, and i think only one of those is actually where its supposed to be, is there anything that could cause interference in the wires or something? or are you showing me things the wires will rub against and get worn on and stuff? are they not supposed to directly contact the fuel rail?
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The wires can rub on the fuel rail and leak current... Takes a while for them to do that but they can... I went through 3 sets before I put the wire loom on the wires again... I have not had another problem...
But without being there looking at it, its hard to say that the wires are the problem... But what you described sounds a whole lot like an ignition related problem... Ignition related problems will be more pronounced under load...
With a scantool hooked up your car should show the cylinder missfire... Right down to the suspect cylinder...
I can't say 100% that the plug wires are or arent the problem...
Good Luck
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But without being there looking at it, its hard to say that the wires are the problem... But what you described sounds a whole lot like an ignition related problem... Ignition related problems will be more pronounced under load...
With a scantool hooked up your car should show the cylinder missfire... Right down to the suspect cylinder...
I can't say 100% that the plug wires are or arent the problem...
Good Luck
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From: Climax Springs, Missouri
well ive been meaning to get new plug wires anyway, but i dont know if thatll fix me problem or not so i dont what to do, a good set of plugs wires is like 35 bucks, thats a tank of gas right there.....and if they dont fix it its just like polishing a turd, any other thoughts?
what if i bought a el cheapo set?
what if i bought a el cheapo set?
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From: Zimmerman, MN.
Originally Posted by LittleHoov
well ive been meaning to get new plug wires anyway, but i dont know if thatll fix me problem or not so i dont what to do, a good set of plugs wires is like 35 bucks, thats a tank of gas right there.....and if they dont fix it its just like polishing a turd, any other thoughts?
what if i bought a el cheapo set?
what if i bought a el cheapo set?
HOLLY CRAP! Your squeaking about a $35 set of wires?!?!?!? You should be happy that you can get a set that cheap! A GM set costs a LOT more than $35!
Look, a member of this site "PM"ed me and very politely asked me not to "guarantee" that plug wires would fix your car. I accepted his advise with a grain of salt seeing as how I've been a GM technician for 10 years now. But enough is enough! YOU NEED NEW PLUG WIRES....PERIOD!!!!!!!!!
Don't skimp out unless you need to, cheap wires will fix the problem but only for a short time compared to GM replacements. Your better off spending the extra $ if you want to keep the car for a while.
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Rather than try to diagnose plug wires from a distance, it might be a better idea to pull the plugs and 'read' them. They'll tell the story. Then check the resistance of your plug wires.
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From: Zimmerman, MN.
Have you ever tried to read plugs that tell the story of an intermittent misfire? It'* a hard story to read!
Have you ever ohm tested a set of wires that misfire intermittently? They are next to impossible to read.
This is not a dead cylinder, not a dead miss. It’* not a constant miss.......its INTERMITTANT!
HE HAS FACTORY ORIGINAL WIRES WITH UMPTEEN THOUSAND MILES ON THEM!!!!!!
HE NEEDS NEW PLUG WIRES!
If I'm wrong, I'll leave this site forever! But if I'm right, you all have to call me "Sir" and provide me with unlimited free **** links. Or just stop being so "old school" and accept the new age technology.
Have you ever ohm tested a set of wires that misfire intermittently? They are next to impossible to read.
This is not a dead cylinder, not a dead miss. It’* not a constant miss.......its INTERMITTANT!
HE HAS FACTORY ORIGINAL WIRES WITH UMPTEEN THOUSAND MILES ON THEM!!!!!!
HE NEEDS NEW PLUG WIRES!
If I'm wrong, I'll leave this site forever! But if I'm right, you all have to call me "Sir" and provide me with unlimited free **** links. Or just stop being so "old school" and accept the new age technology.
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From: Climax Springs, Missouri
umm....right
well i guess ill try on a new set of plug wires when i get the chance, right now i dont have the extra money to just go tossing around, i work part time, and i start college soon, so i dont have money just flowing out my various orphus' but ill see what i can scratch together...
i was planning on picking up a set of Belden wires from NAPA, i hear they are good and have the lifetime warranty? any other suggestions? id be happy to get OEM replacements, but as stated those are rather expensive...
and on a another note, the members who have posted on this topic deserve more respect that you are showing them, this isnt just any other forum, you cant come on with 18 posts and expect people to bow down before you, it doesnt work like that...hang around here a while, show respect, get respect....and this is a family forum, so dont encourage ****.
aside from all that, thanks for the advice.
well i guess ill try on a new set of plug wires when i get the chance, right now i dont have the extra money to just go tossing around, i work part time, and i start college soon, so i dont have money just flowing out my various orphus' but ill see what i can scratch together...
i was planning on picking up a set of Belden wires from NAPA, i hear they are good and have the lifetime warranty? any other suggestions? id be happy to get OEM replacements, but as stated those are rather expensive...
and on a another note, the members who have posted on this topic deserve more respect that you are showing them, this isnt just any other forum, you cant come on with 18 posts and expect people to bow down before you, it doesnt work like that...hang around here a while, show respect, get respect....and this is a family forum, so dont encourage ****.
aside from all that, thanks for the advice.
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From: Zimmerman, MN.
Yes, Belden is good.......not the best but they do make a respectable product. As for the respect thing, I was given little in a P.M. when I first told you what was wrong with your car. I was ASKED not to "insist" on a fault without knowing more details, or without giving you tests to take in order to verify the fault. The thing is, this particular fault can be EXTREAMLY difficult to pin-point even with much knowledge and experience. It is an intermittent fault...not a constant. The problem wire most likely will not ohm out as a fault....because it is an intermittent fault. The plug wire at fault will likely test good simply because there is no load on it while testing.
You see, when checking a circuit (plug wire) for resistance, you are only testing its ability to "connect" from one end to the other. That is a very poor test for a circuit that carries up to 30,000 volts.
AMPERAGE is what determines if the plug wire can do it'* job or not....How much AMPERAGE can it flow?
I'm guessing that you do not own a scan tool that tells you what cylinder is misfiring, or how often it is doing it?
I'm assuming that you do not know how to accurately pin-point a faulty plug wire and I'm assuming that by your description I am 100% correct that it is a faulty plug wire.
Now as far as respect goes, well have you ever heard, don't judge a book by its cover? I've worked for GM for over 12 years! I know these cars like the back of my hand! I'm only occupying this forum for something to do in my spare time. If I'm not welcome, then I will gladly leave. Weather I have 18 posts or 1800 posts, you should judge them by there relevance, not there abundance.
But if you guys want to continue your personal "guessing game" and omit suggestions from experienced professionals.....well, I certainly can't stop you, can I?
You see, when checking a circuit (plug wire) for resistance, you are only testing its ability to "connect" from one end to the other. That is a very poor test for a circuit that carries up to 30,000 volts.
AMPERAGE is what determines if the plug wire can do it'* job or not....How much AMPERAGE can it flow?
I'm guessing that you do not own a scan tool that tells you what cylinder is misfiring, or how often it is doing it?
I'm assuming that you do not know how to accurately pin-point a faulty plug wire and I'm assuming that by your description I am 100% correct that it is a faulty plug wire.
Now as far as respect goes, well have you ever heard, don't judge a book by its cover? I've worked for GM for over 12 years! I know these cars like the back of my hand! I'm only occupying this forum for something to do in my spare time. If I'm not welcome, then I will gladly leave. Weather I have 18 posts or 1800 posts, you should judge them by there relevance, not there abundance.
But if you guys want to continue your personal "guessing game" and omit suggestions from experienced professionals.....well, I certainly can't stop you, can I?