getting very tired of warping rotors, any suggestions? - Page 2 - GM Forum - Buick, Cadillac, Chev, Olds, GMC & Pontiac chat


1992-1999 Series I L27 (1992-1994 SE,SLE, SSE) & Series II L36 (1995-1999 SE, SSE, SLE) and common problems for the Series I and II L67 (all supercharged models 92-99) Including Olds 88's, Olds LSS's and Buick Lesabres Please use General Chat for non-mechanical issues, and Performance and Brainstorming for improvements.

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Old 09-17-2003, 08:07 PM   #11
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thanks, yea i could imagine meineke or pepboys just zinging the lugs on with a big impact wrench... I had no idea to check that they're evenly torqued

Deathrat, if you are reading, in a recent post you said "Just change the rotor, but make sure you check the front caliper leakage or any signs of siezing up. In other words, make damn sure it retracts freely or that new rotor will be garbage in no time", you don't possibly think this has been my problem all along? I would assume the brake techs would have told me if this condition existed the last 4 times in the shop? I will have to have this checked also this time around...

this thing just keeps tearing up rotors, ive never seen a car do this and ive had many, so i think there may be more to it than unevenly torqued lugs.... maybe the cheapo aftermarket rotors are really poor quality and the OEMs (list over $100 each) are super heavy duty, hence their price .... maybe i need some heavy duty rotors, though i am leery of the slotted rotors, they say their only for racing applications and induce more heat than preferred in a street application - see link below for some cool high performance brake rotor information -


http://www.pureperf.com/brakes/Frequently_ask.html
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Old 09-17-2003, 08:34 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleHoov
just tighten till you cant tighten anymore without causing a hernia? or 3 grunts and a "hrrrrrrrrrrruuuuh" ?
One grunt and a hrrrrrrrrrruuuuh. I've had ceramic pads and OEM rotors on since June, and I havent had any issues. But those RSM'* will be as good as bought when these ones go.
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Old 09-17-2003, 11:10 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jr's3800
On the 91 Bonnie I had the factory set warp... I replaced them and decided to use AC Delco pads... Its been 2 years with absolutely no trouble at all... The pas and rotors are still in good shape, no noise and no warp.. I'll bet the factory pads are a bit softer than the aftermarket semimetalic pads..... But so far so good...
This past weekend I had the car realigned. They said I needed new front pads. Well, they never removed the front wheels so I don't see how they can be so sure just by looking at the front calipers. But, it'* been 50,000 miles since I replaced the pads(mostly highway driving) so it is possible that it'* time. My question is, do I stay with the Delco DuraStop pads or should I upgrade to DuraStop Ceramic? I know the advantages of the Ceramic pads but what do you hear about the disadvantages of using Ceramic pads with the stock rotors??

Oh, and as a side note to srgetz, I tried using cheap rotors and drums from China and the results were basically what you described. Stick with US Steel. Yeah, the price is more than you bargained for, but you'll be replacing your rotors a LOT Less.
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Old 09-18-2003, 04:49 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acg_ssei
In addition, I've found that _some_ rotor warping can be relieved just by loosening the lug nuts and re-torquing them properly by hand with the wrench (and don't forget a drop of oil on the lug nut threads before putting them on, to get an accurate reading).
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

you should NEVER use any lubrication on the lugs for a couple reasons.....
#1) the COULD in theory spin off...
#2) the torque spec (100 ft/lbs) is for a CLEAN DRY fastener.. by adding oil to it you are making a lubricated fastener, and 100 ft/lbs may be more like 130+ you dont know... because the lug is not *SUPPOSED* to be lubricated.... (unless your having difficulty taking them off, then a drop of penetrating oil will work, and you SHOULD clean it off)
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Old 09-18-2003, 09:32 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jr's3800
If you stay stock, Than I for one reccomend Ac Delco Dura stop
THAT'* the brakes!!! Thanks jr. I really don't mind dusting(brake dust) once a week!
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Old 09-18-2003, 11:30 AM   #16
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i have Wagner Thermoquiets on mine right now. pretty much the best the auto parts store had in the 50 dolla ranger.the delcos were tryin to rip me a new one. any of you guys have any experience with those? they seem to be working fine.
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Old 09-18-2003, 11:57 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FiReDeViL
Quote:
Originally Posted by acg_ssei
In addition, I've found that _some_ rotor warping can be relieved just by loosening the lug nuts and re-torquing them properly by hand with the wrench (and don't forget a drop of oil on the lug nut threads before putting them on, to get an accurate reading).
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Sorry, but it'* YEEESSSSSSSSS. Seriously. One drop. It'* the same when torquing cylinder head bolts (which take even less torque): a _small_ amount of oil is put on the threads to ensure an accurate torque setting. Bolts are not torqued dry.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FiReDeViL
you should NEVER use any lubrication on the lugs for a couple reasons.....
#1) the COULD in theory spin off...
No, sorry, but it simply isn't going to spin off when it'* torqued to 100 ft./lbs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FiReDeViL
#2) the torque spec (100 ft/lbs) is for a CLEAN DRY fastener.. by adding oil to it you are making a lubricated fastener, and 100 ft/lbs may be more like 130+ you dont know...
Torque is torque. All the wrench is measuring is the exertion of turning the nut. The purpose of the process is to put a predetermined tensile (i.e. stretching) load on the wheel lug to hold the wheel tightly and evenly to the rotor. By calculating the angle of the threads, the diameter of the lug and so on, it'* possible to determine how much torque is required on the nut to produce a certain tensile load on the lug, and that torque on the Bonneville is 100 ft./lbs.

Quote:
because the lug is not *SUPPOSED* to be lubricated.... (unless your having difficulty taking them off, then a drop of penetrating oil will work, and you SHOULD clean it off)
I know what you're concerned about and no one is saying that you should load up the lugs with white lithium before putting the nuts on, but _one_ drop of light oil on the threads is used to get an accurate torque reading.

Try it and see: torque one wheel absolutely dry to 80 ft./lbs., then 90, then 100, in 10-ft.lb. increments, tightening in a star pattern as usual. Chances are you may find one or more lug nuts won't turn any further between the 80, 90 and 100 settings.

Now torque another wheel in the same manner, but add one drop of oil to the threads before putting the nut on. You should now find that as you progress from 80 to 90, and from 90 to 100, you can actually get a bit more turning on each lug nut before the wrench clicks. That'* as it should be: a torque setting of 80 ft./lbs. exerts a different tensile load than 100 ft./lbs., and so to get from one to the other you will need to turn the nut a little bit more.
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Old 09-18-2003, 11:58 AM   #18
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our auto parts stores are crazy here. well actually i just looked at the Oeilly website and they had OEM brake pads for 70 bucks. and semi-metallic for like 55. maybe i shouldve gotten those. oh well too late now. my family has used wagners off and on and never had any trouble i guess.although from the massive rotor warpage reports around here i might just invest in some better rotors eventually.
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Old 09-19-2003, 03:42 AM   #19
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I am a counter person at a Federated auto parts store here in WI, and I too have had similar experiences on my 1997 SSE before it was totalled,I have not changed the brakes on my 98 SSEI yet, Raybestos issued a bulletin to all of us who sell their brakes that the Ceramic (quietstop) pads are not for use on the 99 and older Bonnevilles, They do not shed heat as quick as a semi metallic, also the rotors are relatively small for the size/weight of the car it has to stop.

Buy a good semi metallic pad- either Raybestos PG Plus pads or performance friction semi-metallic pads are ok too.

Use a slotted and crossdrilled premium rotor- Raybestos has these available for our cars in their Brutestop line, They start with OE quality (matching pattern and # of cooling vanes, and CORRECT hub mating surface, and tighter clearances than any economy rotor, They also have VSM which is vehicle specific metallurgy, which means your new severe duty rotors are made of the metal that match the spcs of the ones that came OEM on it.
The rotors are then drilled and slotted, these rotors have exceptional braking, are quiet and produced by the largest Brake parts manufacturer in North America, they run a little over $100 each, But are well worth it.
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Old 09-19-2003, 05:43 PM   #20
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thanks for all the info...

It sounds like my problem is a combination of ceramic w/ cheap rotors, and lugs just zipped on with an impact wrench on top of everything!

Thanks GTX Cowboy, I was considering keeping the ceramic pads till i read that post! Wish they knew about the problem back when I bought them!

I'm going to get OE or hi-po rotors and some OE durastop pads and torque everything properly.
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