Failled Upper? Sound off: - Page 7 - GM Forum - Buick, Cadillac, Chev, Olds, GMC & Pontiac chat


1992-1999 Series I L27 (1992-1994 SE,SLE, SSE) & Series II L36 (1995-1999 SE, SSE, SLE) and common problems for the Series I and II L67 (all supercharged models 92-99) Including Olds 88's, Olds LSS's and Buick Lesabres Please use General Chat for non-mechanical issues, and Performance and Brainstorming for improvements.

View Poll Results: was your failed upper a...
rochester 8 18.60%
delphi 10 23.26%
i didn't pay that much attention, i was a little more worried about other things... 25 58.14%
Voters: 43. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-30-2006, 01:56 PM   #61
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Highlanders was replaced by his dealer at the time it went the first time around. Probably a Delphi.

It honestly scares me when I think of the weight on these things..they really weight almost nothing.
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Old 01-30-2006, 04:01 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillBoost37
Highlanders was replaced by his dealer at the time it went the first time around. Probably a Delphi.

It honestly scares me when I think of the weight on these things..they really weight almost nothing.
I was shocked to see the diffrence between the Delphi and the Dorman unit... And the Dorman sounded a lot more solid when you give it a good knock with the good ole knuckles...lol

And they sure do weigh almost nothing... I have noticed a lot of diffrent manufactures have gone to the composite for intakes..

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Old 01-30-2006, 04:37 PM   #63
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Thanks for the summary Don. I had seen a lot of this info here in bits and pieces, but this kind of summarizes the situation.

Regarding other mfgs using the composite. It'* true. An example is the Ranger 3.0 that Bill just brought up today. Ford changed that intake in '98 to composite. Lighter, but no way to polish and port for more breathing (unnecessary for boosted folks, lol).
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Old 01-30-2006, 04:44 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lash
Thanks for the summary Don. I had seen a lot of this info here in bits and pieces, but this kind of summarizes the situation.

Regarding other mfgs using the composite. It'* true. An example is the Ranger 3.0 that Bill just brought up today. Ford changed that intake in '98 to composite. Lighter, but no way to polish and port for more breathing (unnecessary for boosted folks, lol).
So true... I think on the 3.0... Man they used a lot of Vulcans... Its exactly like the Alluminum and I think Magnesium intake but made of Plastic( Composite ) and the runners should be smoother than the Alluminum intake... But I agree with the alluminum there is room to play...

The 3800 is an odd breed, the upper is more like a cover, with runners sandwhiched between the lower and upper... But man O man are the plastic runners ultra smooth... And even with the series III alluminum upper intake, they still have that very same plastic runners sandwhiched between the upper and lower...

Its a shame that we don't have a comapany that makes an alluminum upper so we never have to come back to the upper intake failure again..

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Old 02-02-2006, 01:45 AM   #65
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sorry i dont know which uim i had but just sounding of that i am yet another bonnie owner who had both UIM and LIM replaced. :( but its back and im enjoying it now....just too bad i didnt preempt the failure like all the others out there....damn my laziness.

anyway on to the class action and petition polled earlier here...anyone ever here on that thing? im 10000 something for the petition and im sure the class action has a large amount of emailers
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Old 02-04-2006, 07:49 AM   #66
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So is there less chance of the 3800 II'* made in 1999 or later failing?
I think the manufacture date on my UIM is 3-20-99, real close anyways.

I look forward to it'* failure like I look forward to having a tooth drilled.
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Old 02-04-2006, 12:13 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by impatient99
So is there less chance of the 3800 II'* made in 1999 or later failing?
I think the manufacture date on my UIM is 3-20-99, real close anyways.

I look forward to it'* failure like I look forward to having a tooth drilled.
It depends on when exactly they went to the smaller diameter tube... Even that isn't a cure, but anything helps as long as it can keep some of the heat away from the composite manifold.. we are still watching all of these cars...

Mine was getting bad and was about due for the replacement... So I replaced it... I should have used a smaller diameter EGR stove pipe while I had the chance... May be something I go back and install...lol

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Old 02-13-2006, 08:25 AM   #68
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There'* no way of ever really knowing when the change occured - I've talked to the people that worked there, and it was one of those changes that was phased in... so I don't think there'* much chance we'll ever find out what day they started using the reduced diameter stovepipes.

Anyhew, re: dorman units, they'll fail, just the same - it'* just a matter of how long they last before they do. There'* a good chance that it'll take so long for them to fail, it won't matter anyway - but with this particular design, it'* really only a matter of time, unless the upper is made of some different material than what it is right now.

And yeah, it'* kind of a funny design, but the composite upper is a very popular design - not just with GM. It'* easy to mold, and gives super smooth air passages, increasing volumetric efficiency. The problem isn't so much with the composite as with having the egr and coolant so close together, in a dirty intake.
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Old 02-13-2006, 12:18 PM   #69
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Just wanted to throw in a little note...

Family member was down.... He drives cars back and forth to diffrent places for the local dealerships where he lives... We were talking about the bonnevilles... He was chatting with one of the shops that had a couple bonnevilles in the bays... Both had ruptured intakes... 01 and 02 with the L36.... He knows the guy that owns the 02, the guy said it let go going up an onramp, nothing but whitish smoke... From what I understand the dealerships are starting to see the 00-02 models for upper intake issues... These cars are now 4-6 years old, and seem to be following in the 4-6 year failure range like most of the L36'* do...

In my various trips to the dealership for parts I have seen 98-99 and 00 L36'* with the upper intake issues...

So these is no real way to know what was what... Seems that even the newer units may be proned to failure as well...

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Old 02-15-2006, 12:51 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jr's3800
Just wanted to throw in a little note...

Family member was down.... He drives cars back and forth to diffrent places for the local dealerships where he lives... We were talking about the bonnevilles... He was chatting with one of the shops that had a couple bonnevilles in the bays... Both had ruptured intakes... 01 and 02 with the L36.... He knows the guy that owns the 02, the guy said it let go going up an onramp, nothing but whitish smoke... From what I understand the dealerships are starting to see the 00-02 models for upper intake issues... These cars are now 4-6 years old, and seem to be following in the 4-6 year failure range like most of the L36'* do...

In my various trips to the dealership for parts I have seen 98-99 and 00 L36'* with the upper intake issues...

So these is no real way to know what was what... Seems that even the newer units may be proned to failure as well...
I wrote a paper on the subject (sorry, can't post it) for an internal combustion engine class final paper, and the basic conclusion is that with the current design, unless you remove the coolant, or change the material, any other type of fix can be nothing more than a band aid. It doesn't matter how large or small the egr stovepipe is, because it'll still get filled with gunk from the EGR and PCV eventually - and when that happens, heat transfer is no longer convection, it'* conduction. That wears down the composite... and leads to failure.

So unless a sleeve comes out that fully protects the coolant passages (that would be kind of cool, but I don't know that it can be done right), the only way to truley avoid UIM failure is to change the material (i.e., L26 mani).
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