98 SE Wont start if sits for 20-30 minutes - GM Forum - Buick, Cadillac, Chev, Olds, GMC & Pontiac chat


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Old 10-27-2007, 10:49 PM   #1
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Default 98 SE Wont start if sits for 20-30 minutes

Hey all, I have a 98 SE with 182K on the clock and recently I have been running into a random issue. If I drive anywhere and then park the car for like 20-45 minutes (like at Wendys tonight 60 miles from home ) it will have a REAL hard time starting. It will catch, then die out. Try again, catch, sputter, die. Sometimes it will catch and limp really badly for like 30 seconds, then all of a sudden the revs will jump up, the voltage needle will go to 13 and be just fine, like nothing happened. I have a code that is 'lean bank 1' but I have always gotten that code randomly, so I don't think it has anything to do with it. It seems almost like something is getting heat soaked. Tonight at Wendy'* I just opened the hood, waited like 10 minutes, then it started. It will never act like this if the car has been sitting a couple hours...only on short stops. Any ideas?
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Old 10-27-2007, 11:06 PM   #2
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Has the car ever had its UIM and LIM gaskets replaced?

Also..do you mysteriously lose coolant? Do you check your coolant often?
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Old 10-27-2007, 11:32 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wjcollier07
Has the car ever had its UIM and LIM gaskets replaced?

Also..do you mysteriously lose coolant? Do you check your coolant often?
I bought the car used, so I cant tell 100% if it has been changed, but I remember seeing the date code on the intake as being made in '01 so logically it seems that way. Also, whoever had it before got rid of the dexcool, so Im pretty sure they have. I have had the car 2 years and have never noticed any low coolant.

Something I forgot to mention in my original post was that I did check for spark on one of the plugs in the front (I knew that 98 cent tester from harbor freight that I kept forgetting to take out of the car would come in handy someday ). I had spark at the one I tested. Then my wife cranked it again as I unhooked it and it zapped me, so I know there is spark at that one! I was going to test the other 2, but then it started.
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Old 10-28-2007, 01:02 AM   #4
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I suspect a leaky fuel pressure regulator. Next time it happens, push the throttle all the way to the floor (the throttle position sensor at 100% will disable the fuel injector pulse) and crank the car for 5 seconds at a time, and repeat 3 times. Does it start easier?

Your car may be flooding out due to a leaky FPR. Another thing to do is to pull the vacuum line from the FPR when it won't start and smell it. If it smells like fuel, replace it.

A leaky fuel injector can also do the same thing, but isn't as likely. Do you have access to a fuel pressure gauge?
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Old 10-28-2007, 10:37 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willwren
I suspect a leaky fuel pressure regulator. Next time it happens, push the throttle all the way to the floor (the throttle position sensor at 100% will disable the fuel injector pulse) and crank the car for 5 seconds at a time, and repeat 3 times. Does it start easier?

Your car may be flooding out due to a leaky FPR. Another thing to do is to pull the vacuum line from the FPR when it won't start and smell it. If it smells like fuel, replace it.

A leaky fuel injector can also do the same thing, but isn't as likely. Do you have access to a fuel pressure gauge?
yea, I have a tester, I will check that today. With the key on, but not running, what should I see? 50 psi? I was suspecting the flooding thing because I can smell fuel from in the car when I crank it. I have tried to floor it to shut off the injectors, but maybe I wasn't doing it enough, cause I only did it once and didn't notice a difference.

EDIT: I just remembered something else as well...last time when I put seafoam into it, I used one of the vacuum lines and it was pretty nasty. I even broke off a section that literally crumbled in my hands. Maybe I should replace that too, lol

EDIT #2: The more I thought about that hose, the more I wanted to check it. So, I went out to the driveway in my pajamas and popped the cover off at the firewall. Here is what I found....think this could be it, or just another issue?


either way, it is getting replaced today.
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Old 10-28-2007, 11:34 AM   #6
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That'* an unrelated issue. Quite the opposite effect. Check all your lines and get them fixed.

On the fuel pressure, get your number from here:
http://www.bonnevilleclub.com/forum/...e=article&k=17

It'* best to fully prime it for the test with 2 seconds ignition on (no start) 3 times, then record the number. In your case, we're more interested in the bleed down. You should hold (in ideal circumstances) 75% of your pressure over an hour. In your case, if what I suspect is true, your pressure will drop to zero in 5 or 10 minutes. If it does, pull the vacuum line off the FPR and see if that'* where it bled to. If it did, you are trying to start a flooded car.

Rule thse out. If I'm wrong, we'll move on, but don't forget to keep an eye on that coolant at the same time. Ignoring coolant can be the death of your engine. (see the heated debate on DEX and LIM gaskets in General Chat).

Pulling your plugs for a good inspection might also be a good idea.
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Old 10-29-2007, 07:23 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willwren
That'* an unrelated issue. Quite the opposite effect. Check all your lines and get them fixed.

On the fuel pressure, get your number from here:
http://www.bonnevilleclub.com/forum/...e=article&k=17

It'* best to fully prime it for the test with 2 seconds ignition on (no start) 3 times, then record the number. In your case, we're more interested in the bleed down. You should hold (in ideal circumstances) 75% of your pressure over an hour. In your case, if what I suspect is true, your pressure will drop to zero in 5 or 10 minutes. If it does, pull the vacuum line off the FPR and see if that'* where it bled to. If it did, you are trying to start a flooded car.

Rule thse out. If I'm wrong, we'll move on, but don't forget to keep an eye on that coolant at the same time. Ignoring coolant can be the death of your engine. (see the heated debate on DEX and LIM gaskets in General Chat).

Pulling your plugs for a good inspection might also be a good idea.

Tested everything yesterday.

Cold engine, only primed the pump - 23 psi
Engine running - 38 psi
Letting sit for 1 hour after running - it had gone down to 19 psi
When I tried to start it after that hour, it did the usual sputter and limp for a about 5 seconds, during this time the fuel pressure stayed at about 23, then when it caught, it jumped up to 38 and everything was normal.

Coolant level was a hair low, nothing big...refilled with the green stuff (dex poo was removed a long time ago)

Plugs are less than 6 months old, but I will pull a few just to check
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Old 10-29-2007, 08:15 AM   #8
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There may still be an open recall on the FPR on your car. I'm not 100% of the dates, GM had some issues and one of them was leaky FPR'* causing engine explosions.

Did you happen to try removing the vacuum to the FPR while the car was running to see if there was a jump in pressure?

On the P0171, that can frequently be a poor battery connection, corrosion in the cables or a leaky vacuum line/or two like in your picture.
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Old 10-29-2007, 07:40 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillBoost37
There may still be an open recall on the FPR on your car. I'm not 100% of the dates, GM had some issues and one of them was leaky FPR'* causing engine explosions.

Did you happen to try removing the vacuum to the FPR while the car was running to see if there was a jump in pressure?

On the P0171, that can frequently be a poor battery connection, corrosion in the cables or a leaky vacuum line/or two like in your picture.
Removing vacuum to the FPR with the car running showed no change at all. Fuel pressure and rpms stayed the same.

Oh, as far as the recall, there is a sticker on the core support showing that it was already done. You think they keep track of those by vin number?
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Old 10-29-2007, 10:08 PM   #10
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The diagnostics in the FSM point you toward a fuel pump being weak. If there is no fuel in the vacuum line for the FPR and it'* been changed already it may be the pump.

With your mileage..do you know if the pump has ever been replaced?
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