What's the difference in the VIN engine codes? - GM Forum - Buick, Cadillac, Chev, Olds, GMC & Pontiac chat


1987-1991 Parley with regards to your 1987 to 1991 Bonneville, Olds 88 or Buick Le Sabre Please use General Chat for non-mechanical issues, and Performance and Brainstorming for improvements.

Reply
 
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 07-19-2004, 03:40 PM   #1
Member
Posts like a V-Tak
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 50
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
DannyC is on a distinguished road
Default What'* the difference in the VIN engine codes?

I see a lot of people posting with sigs saying "Vin C" etc. What is the differences in the VIN engine codes? I thought a 3800 Series I was a 3800 Series I?
DannyC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2004, 04:05 PM   #2
Senior Member
True Car Nut
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Texarkana, Texas
Posts: 6,041
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Damemorder is on a distinguished road
Default

Well.... with a 90 you've got a vin C 3800, not actually a Series 1.

The Vin 3 was the first, it had some little problems and only 150hp. I think you could only get it in 87..

The Vin C was a little update running 165hp, 88-91 I think...

Then we go to the Series 1 L67 (92-95) and the L27 (92-94)

Then the Series 2 L67 (96-04) and the L36 (95-04)


(Years are off the top of my head and may not be right)
Damemorder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2004, 07:00 PM   #3
Senior Member
True Car Nut
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Halifax, Canada 91SSE / 97SSEi
Posts: 5,857
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Merlin 91/97 is on a distinguished road
Default

Is it likely that if you had a Vin C engine completely die, they could easily replace it with a Vin L?

How could you tell?

Only reason I ask is because when my org engine in my 91 died in 2000, they said they put an "improved" 3800 in it. They gave me some technical details, bored out more(?) and other things, but I didn't pay attention really.
Merlin 91/97 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2004, 07:16 PM   #4
Senior Member
Posts like a Camaro
 
padgett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Orlando, Florida
Posts: 872
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
padgett is on a distinguished road
Default

Have seen an 88 "C" replaced by an "L" and the original "C" computer and PROM still worked despite about a 30% increase in airflow capability between the "C" and "L". In that case the "L" was for a TranSport which did not have an EGR (quite surprising).

'88 "C" also received roller lifters.

Original cams were quite ded with "C" torque peak at 2000 rpm. As years went by, cams got hotter but even current ones are mild by '60s standards.

Exhaust manifolding of "C" engines was terrible. Front side was pretty good but rear to the head pipe is jus a ragged hole in the log with an effective flow area of about an inch and a half instead of the 2" pipe you see. I suspect this was for ease of installation into the car as a proper arrangement might not have been able to be dropped in from the top.

And just for *&G the 165hp was the same as the XK Jaguar DOHC 3.4 liter 6. Just forty years earlier.
padgett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2004, 10:54 PM   #5
Member
Posts like a V-Tak
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 50
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
DannyC is on a distinguished road
Default

Every time I post, I'm amazed by the collective knowledge these forums have . You've answered just about every question I had. Thanks!
DannyC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2004, 11:20 PM   #6
Senior Member
True Car Nut
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Halifax, Canada 91SSE / 97SSEi
Posts: 5,857
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Merlin 91/97 is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by padgett
Original cams were quite ded with "C" torque peak at 2000 rpm. As years went by, cams got hotter but even current ones are mild by '60s standards.
Where would the torque peak with "L"?

From what I recall I find my power comes at 3000-3500rpm... ie.. that'* when the car starts to really move.
Anyway I can tell if it'* a C or L in there?
Merlin 91/97 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2004, 09:12 AM   #7
Senior Member
Posts like a Camaro
 
padgett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Orlando, Florida
Posts: 872
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
padgett is on a distinguished road
Default

Easy way is the "C" engine has a log style plenium on the intake manifold (looks a lot like a 1957 Rochester FI) and the "L" engine has the "snakes" plenium (several curved tubes over the top).
padgett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2004, 12:38 PM   #8
Senior Member
True Car Nut
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Halifax, Canada 91SSE / 97SSEi
Posts: 5,857
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Merlin 91/97 is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by padgett
Easy way is the "C" engine has a log style plenium on the intake manifold (looks a lot like a 1957 Rochester FI) and the "L" engine has the "snakes" plenium (several curved tubes over the top).
I think I've got the "log" style....

Here'* a pic of my engine....

Yea I know I really need to clean it better.
Merlin 91/97 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2004, 01:48 PM   #9
Senior Member
True Car Nut
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 5,158
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
repinS is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jr's3800
The torque peak for a Vin C 3800 is 2800 Rpms
I thought it was 210lb-ft @ 2000?

oh, and don't worry Merlin, my engine'* even worse



and what about that alternator? Mine looks practically the same as Merlin'*
repinS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2004, 04:31 PM   #10
Senior Member
Posts like a Camaro
 
padgett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Orlando, Florida
Posts: 872
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
padgett is on a distinguished road
Default

Interesting spec info here. 3800 has a very mild (less than 300 degree) cam with a very broad and flat curve (how you can have 200 lb-ft at 2000 rpm and still 167 lb-ft at 5200 (84% of peak), a 3200 rpm torque band is very wide.

This makes sense since for maximum efficiency you want the torque peak at the maximum cruise speed and most Bonnevilles are barely turning over 2000 rpm at 70 mph in o/d lock-up.

Cars of the 60'* and 70'* had axles considerably longer, I had a '72 LeMans wagon with 400 cid and "economy" (3.0 axle and it was turning 3200 rpm at 70. This was a big part of the 15 mpg max. Correspondingly, the torque peaked somewhere between 3000 and 4500 rpm depending on the state of tune.

This meant when you jumped on it from a stop light, the torque converter jumped to the 2200 rpm stall speed and then began to wind with the torque constantly increasing until you hit the peak. This gave you that "feeling of accelleration" which was really feeling the *change* in acceleration.

OTOH the "C" engine jumps immediately to max torque (what gives you acceleration) and just holds it near there until time to shift (which is in the 4000s). That constant acceleration means it does not feel like it is going faster, it just does. This is why many people are surprised when they look down and see how far the speedo has wound around.

BTW "real world" 0-60 for a good running Bonne with a "C" engine is around eight and a half seconds which is really pretty quick, it just does not seem like it.
padgett is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
2000 SSEi engine rebuild / 3800 series II engine VIN location slgarner3 2000-2005 5 10-15-2009 08:25 AM
whats the difference between a vin#l or vin #n 3800? terry69 1992-1999 11 04-11-2005 11:10 PM
Will 99 Vin K Grand Prix fit in a 96 Vin K Bonneville? parallelcircuits 1992-1999 3 03-08-2004 02:31 AM
VIN number reader/history on VIN number ne 1 hav this progrm SSEimatt93 General GM Chat 1 07-04-2003 01:42 AM
Will a Vin 1 lower end work in VIN L car??? OLBlueEyesBonne 1992-1999 1 07-03-2003 12:59 AM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:03 AM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.