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1987-1991 Parley with regards to your 1987 to 1991 Bonneville, Olds 88 or Buick Le Sabre Please use General Chat for non-mechanical issues, and Performance and Brainstorming for improvements.

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Old 09-15-2006, 12:09 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by padgett
Problem is that the manual says to begin replacement with the window all the way up.
This is exactly the problem I have. I am angry enough to break the window, but I would rather not. If I haven't clearly stated the question in my previous posts on this topic,here it is:
How do I get the window to roll up without using the motor and without breaking anything else?
If you don't know the answer, and don't have anything constructive to add, don't waste my time and I will gladly extend to you the same courtesy.
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Old 09-15-2006, 01:29 AM   #12
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Okay, the front driver'* door switch needs to be installed in its socket for the rear ones to work. Rear ones work again. No further developments.
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Old 09-15-2006, 02:59 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bastard
I appreciate your kind words and sympathy.
The point of my last post is that the switches do not interchange
On my car, the rear switch cannot be used for a front switch or vice versa. The switches have all been returned to their correct positions. The back ones don't work now. Thanks a bunch.
My electrical knowledge is not all that limited. I won't claim to be an expert, but I had no problem passing the electronics schools the United States Navy sent me to.
My unfamiliarity with this specific model of car is what has me hung up.
What I was hoping to see is some advice from someone familiar enough with these cars to know about how to get the window up without using the motor and without breaking anything else.
So far, since I followed panda'* advice, I have 2 additional non-working windows. Is there anyone else here that has more knowledge of these cars that might have a solution?
I understand your level of frustration at this point.
Swapping the switch on my SSE88 worked well thow.
Sorry to hear that your problem became epidimic to another window.
It is not normal that returning the switch back where it was is making your back window not working anymore.
Check your fuses maybe one is blown or there is a bad ground now or connection.
Jump wire directly from the battery will tell you alot about the motor health
On this you are the judge on what to take or not from my suggestions.
Sorry for the inconvenient if no success so far.
best regards
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Old 09-15-2006, 03:03 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bastard
Quote:
Originally Posted by padgett
Problem is that the manual says to begin replacement with the window all the way up.
This is exactly the problem I have. I am angry enough to break the window, but I would rather not. If I haven't clearly stated the question in my previous posts on this topic,here it is:
How do I get the window to roll up without using the motor and without breaking anything else?
If you don't know the answer, and don't have anything constructive to add, don't waste my time and I will gladly extend to you the same courtesy.
I am presently on the road and will be back this monday.
I will check my Bonneville MAINTENANCE manual to see what troubleshooting they are suggesting and will email you the chapter...if you want.
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Old 09-15-2006, 04:05 AM   #15
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Default Tests

Quote:
POWER WINDOWS
LH Window Switch Operation

When the ignition switch is in RUN, battery voltage is applied to the LH master switch assembly through circuit breaker 24 and the PNK (76) wire.
When any of the UP switches in the LH master switch assembly not associated with the express down are operated, battery voltage is applied to the window motor. The window motor is grounded through the DN contact in the LH master switch assembly. The motor runs to drive the window up. When any of the DN switches in the LH MSA are operated, battery voltage is applied to the window motor in the opposite direction. The window motor is grounded through the UP contact in the LH MSA. The motor runs to drive the window down.
Express Down Window Operation
The Express Down window function is a convenience feature that allows the LH front window to be fully opened by operating the LH front window to be fully opened by operating the LH FW DN switch for more than 0.3 seconds, the window will only move down a small distance.
When the ignition switch is in RUN, the EDW module receives power at terminal A. When the LH FWD switch is operated for more than 0.3 seconds and released, the Timer and Control Unit detects this at the down input terminal. The relay control switch closes, completing the coil circuit through the LH FW UP switch in the LH MSA to ground G200. The relay contacts close and the LH FWM receives battery voltage. Terminal B of the motor is grounded through the LH MSA LH FW UP switch contact. When the window is fully down, the motor stall current will be detected at the current sense input of the Timer and Control Unit. The relay control switch will be opened, de-energizing the coil and disconnecting power to the motor. The motor will also be stopped 20 seconds after the LH FW DN switch is pushed.
If the LH FW UP switch is pushed while operating in the express down mode, the timer and control unit will detect this at the UP input terminal and open the LH FWM terminal B. The window will stop moving down and will move up IF the UP switch is held. If the power input at terminal A of the EDM is lost, the power window will still operate but without the ED feature.
Quote:
LH Master Switch Test
Using a test lamp between the indicated lead wires, ignition switch - RUN, and operating the window switch UP and DN from the LH master switch assembly. Illumination of the test lamp without movement of the window indicates failure of the LH master switch assembly.
  • J (DK GRN) & K (PPL)
    C (DK BLU) & D (BRN)
    G (LT GRN) & H (PPL/WHT)
    B (TAN) & A (DK BLU/WHT)
Quote:
WINDOW MOTOR TEST
Using a test lamp between the indicated lead wires, ignition switch - RUN, suspect window motor connector - disconnected, operate the window switch UP and DN. Illumination of the test lamp indicates failure of window motor.
  • DK BLU & BRN or BRN/WHT
Check the wires to the suspect window motor for an open (see schematic). If wires are OK, and motor is connected to an Express Down Window Module, replace the Express Down Module.
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Old 09-15-2006, 04:17 AM   #16
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Default Door Glass

Obviously it is easier to accomplish the glass removal with it first in the fully up position.
The manual says to remove the front run channel screws and pull the run channel down and out of the door body. Then the glass carrier is pried away from the rear run channel near mid-height. The glass should be tipped in as it is removed.
I would try to pry the carrier off the nylon regulator belt. I know there is no room inside the door panel. See what you can do. My forearms were well scratched from just changing out the motor and lift assembly; with the window up.
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Old 09-15-2006, 09:32 AM   #17
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Yes last night I was pretty frustrated. Hopefully, I'll have more progress with this today.
All help is appreciated. Thanks
SAM
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Old 09-18-2006, 11:26 AM   #18
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The express down module is bad on mine. The GM PN is 16627302 for the most recently updated version. PNs 16626271 and 16603645 (the bad one) will work as well. Can the Express Down feature be deleted by jumping a few wires?

Mark
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Old 09-26-2006, 11:30 PM   #19
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Default it was the switch

Got out the old test light today and figured out it was the switch. The local stealership said they can still get one- in about a week. So I went to the salvage yard where I got my wrong bumper and picked up a master switch for $20 US. A little more than I wanted to pay for a used one, but like they say, a bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush. And it was air conditioner weather here today, so it seemed like a good deal.
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Old 10-02-2006, 01:46 PM   #20
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Switches rarely go bad. Usual cause of problem is the motor 90/100. Years ago I acquired a motor plug with about 6" of leads. You pull the door panel and wire 12v directly to the motor. One polarity goes up, other goes down. If it doesn't you know it is the motor.

Reason glass needs to be up is to alow wiggle room without breaking glass. No need on the Bonne to move any channels unless they need adjustement.

It it will not go up then you *should* be able to remove the two regulator to sash bolts, disconnect the tape, and slide the window up (has been a long time and was always able to get the window to go up with the motor when wired directly).

That tape system really was not a good idea, slow and if the holes in the tape became chewed up, a real pain.
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