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Old 01-28-2007, 04:25 AM   #1
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Default Lifter tick.

Just wondering since its fresh on my mind. My lifter tick. Its getting bad. I mean, L. O. U. D. So loud that you can hear it through the exhaust note. I was wondering, since my oil is not getting up into the lifters very fast in the winter, might it be a good idea to switch to a lower winter viscosity? Such as 0W-30? On cold mornings, it actually is taking 15-20 minutes for it to stop, and I know that can't be good for that already dying lifter. (almost sounds like two nowadays) I am thinking that as long as I can keep oil on that thing as much as possible, i can keep it from failing for quite a long time...hopefully

Unfortunately, slick 50 didn't help...it made it worse. So umm, it stands true, additives always have sucked, still suck and always will suck. Oil and oil only is what is going into my engine from now on.

Now I know there is not much to any clearance at all between the piston head and the valves in these engines... ultimately I know what can happen if this lifter goes, and i know it wont be a pretty noise nor ultimate outcome. Now since this is taking so long right now for the oil to get up there, I am just letting it idle, but what are other things i can do to prolong this/these lifters?

Thanks guys, just want to get a straight forward idea in my head about this and stop trying to guess what to do.
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Old 01-28-2007, 09:57 AM   #2
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It sounds like you're looking for a band aid for a broken foot.
The best thing you could do for that engine is to fix it correctly before you drive it to death.
Short of that you might try a block heater to keep the oil warm. Warm oil flows better.
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Old 01-28-2007, 10:45 AM   #3
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Actually, this is a non-interference motor, and if a 'lifter went' nothing would happen. Probably only would feel a bit of difference in power, and that'* all. I completely snapped my timing chain on my old motor, and although that caused a few rods to blow, all the valves were confirmed unbent.

What you need to do, is remove the valve covers. Check that all the valves are tight. Rotate the engine over, and while the valve is closed, check it'* tolerance. Should be very little. Just enough to rock the rocker just a hair. I bet you have a loose rocker... it'* a common problem, and before I touched my old motor i found mine were excessively loose [like pull them off the pushrod], w/ no lifter tick. If that isn't the case, and all your pushrods are tight, then you got noise coming elsewhere.

An oil flow problem is not what is happening here. If that were a problem, your engine would be long gone by now. If you have 40PSI oil pressure [at any RPM], you have enough oil flow, and oil pressure to push that oil wherever it needs to go. It may take up to a minute or two before it gets to the pushrods, but certainly not 20min. Switching to 0w oil could possibly help. But if you are running 5w30 I couldn't see how 0w could be any better. I am running 10w30 w/o any problems, no noise, no ticks, only thing is when I first fire up the car on a cold morning, the pressure takes about 5sec to max out [at about 50PSI]. [btw, only reason i'm running 10w30 is because it was 1.15/qt].
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Old 01-28-2007, 10:49 AM   #4
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Default Re: Lifter tick.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wjcollier07
Thanks guys, just want to get a straight forward idea in my head about this and stop trying to guess what to do.
Hmmm. Have you identified which lifter it is? There really isn't any temporary fix for one that is done in...beyond just living with the tick.

What will happen when it fails completely? Not much, you'* bee running on 5 cylinders instead of six. It'* not going to hurt the valve at all, or the piston, or the bore...since a collapsed lifter leaves the valve in it'* seat, not poking down into the cylinder. The pushrod and rocker might take a beating, but the valve usually doesn't.
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Old 01-28-2007, 12:05 PM   #5
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Wasn't this engine overheated at one time? Overheating can cause a lot of problems later on. Any of the bores can become oval (valve guides, lifter bores) or could have bent a rod.

I would also suggest using a screwdriver between your ear and motor along the heads and valve covers and try to listen to locate the area of the tick. They also make a modified stethescope for this. Then if you start any disassembly you will know where to start looking.
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Old 01-28-2007, 06:03 PM   #6
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Yes, this car was overheated.

If you mean fixing it right as in replacing the lifters, I have several reasons for not doing that, the biggest one being that the car is getting old and I really don't want to put a whole heck of alot of money into it right now. Thats all. I am just wondering what I can do to help this a tad. And OSG, I never said it was an oil pressure problem, I just said that the oil is to thick when its cold.

So it could just be a loose rocker? Just remove the valve covers and check their torque?

I must be really out of the loop here, i really have very little experience with internal engine components. I understand how they work and what does what, but not always what goes where. now. my rockers just could be loose. ok, and if i go in and retorque all the rocker bolts and find they're all good. then its lifter replacement time..correct? now. they aren't cheap and i don't have alot of money. if i do replace a couple lifters, is it worth it or is it better to just replace all 12?

and i have heard about those oil pan warmers, would that help?
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Old 01-28-2007, 08:55 PM   #7
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Alright man, you want to fix this. Here'* what you do.

Pull the valvecovers... front one is easy, just loosen that loopy thing on the manifold.. and disconnect that CCV hose from the TB. Grab a wrench, turn the motor over until rocker #1 [doesn't matter the order] is off [as in closes the valve.. once it stops moving you are good]. Check the clearance. Repeat for all 8 valves. If the entire front row all check out, leave it alone. If they all just wiggle a bit, the lifters will take care of it under oil pressure [or at the very least it won't tick, loud that is].

For the rear, it'* a bit more difficult. You must remove the EGR Valve. Which, if you have never done before, can be very fun [as with all exhaust stuff]. It is much easier to disconnect the base from the tube, than the tube from the exhaust. It is a 3/8" bolt, NOT a 10mm, make it fit, it will fit!. Use lots of PB Blaster.. because that whole assembly breaks very easily. Again, doing the same procedure as for the front. If they all check out, none of them are loose, what you are hearing is NOT a lifter tick. We'll deal with that if it comes about.

Now, if one [or more] are loose, take all of the rockers off, keeping them in order. Clean the threads both in the head [blow dry with compressed air, VERY IMPORTANT]. You must remove all oil from this, otherwise it'll cause problems down the line. Get some BLUE loctite, cover threads thoroughly, but w/o overdoing it. Install the rockers, then rotate the engine so the valve is closed, and torque them to 13ftlbs [again, very important]. You will get a feel for them once it'* too tight, or too loose. It goes from no resistance to lots of resistance and starts opening the valve [this is too tight, you want to make sure the valve is not opening no matter the torque]. Repeat for the entire bank, if the front is bad and rear is good, don't mess with the rear. Or if both have one or more loose do both banks. Sometimes if it ain't broke, it'* best to leave it alone .

Also a little note, your valve cover gaskets are probably flat, flush with the head. If there wasn't a leak before, there will be once you put that valve cover back on. Got the cash? get some new ones, if not apply a very light coating of non-hardening gasket sealer [silicone could work... but the former is better]. Mine were flat as a pancake, evidence of leakage, but no consumption, did the same stuff i'm talking about here, installed them dry and not noticably worse than before... so unless you are super anal about a very clean engine you may not need to do anything. Just a bit-o-info, do with it what you will.

EDIT: and with the whole overheating thing, out of round lifter bores, etc... no. If your motor overheated so bad, it warped the lifter bores to the point it caused a horrible lifter tick, your motor either would use an insane amount of oil or not run. Period.
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Old 01-28-2007, 10:23 PM   #8
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Thanks for the write up man. Appreciate it. I will probably be doing this in the spring if i do it at all as I currently have no warm place to work and the current forecast is nothing much above the teens. Joy. Now. I really don't have the money to do it right now, but for the time being I will just keep some good oil in there.

As far as that overheating thing goes, yeah, the car was overheated, about as hot as it gets, it had so much KR that it basically wouldn't run, it just stopped. But it actually other than the valve gaskets leaking slightly, does not use/burn oil, so thats good.

Thanks for the help. appreciate it. I will update on this if I find anything more.
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Old 01-28-2007, 11:09 PM   #9
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Even if you don't have a warm place to work, pulling the front valve cover and checking it would maybe take 30min. I'd go for it man. If your valve cover gaskets already leak, may as well crack 'em open. Wouldn't cost you anything, just time, and frigidness.
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Old 01-29-2007, 01:26 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wjcollier07
Thanks for the write up man. Appreciate it. I will probably be doing this in the spring if i do it at all as I currently have no warm place to work and the current forecast is nothing much above the teens. Joy. Now. I really don't have the money to do it right now, but for the time being I will just keep some good oil in there.

As far as that overheating thing goes, yeah, the car was overheated, about as hot as it gets, it had so much KR that it basically wouldn't run, it just stopped. But it actually other than the valve gaskets leaking slightly, does not use/burn oil, so thats good.

Thanks for the help. appreciate it. I will update on this if I find anything more.
If you were closer, for the price of a Gasket set we could install the L27 Lifters I have here.. All in a short days work too..

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