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Old 01-20-2005, 08:11 PM   #51
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Well...yea...I know it sounds like a stupid question. What I was getting at is how should it really take 1 1/2 hours on the block heater to start when it'* only -10 out? So yea, if my ignition stuff sucks that bad, that would make sense I guess. But how does the block heater make the ignition stuff work better [I know it warms the block, but if my crappy ignition won't start it when it'* cold because theres something wrong with it, how does the crappy ignition work when the block is warming the block, and nothing with the ignition is changing? Is it just the combination of both things that make it work? I don't think I'm making any sense, lol

I think this is what I'm trying to say: Bad ignition stuff+cold block = no start. Bad Ignition + warm block = just barely starts. ( The heater gives the ignition the edge it needs to get it going?)

Hopefully good ignition + cold block/and or warm block = good start.

Anyway, this is what it sounded like starting after not starting, then being plugged in for 1:30 hours, then being started.

http://members.shaw.ca/bonneville01/ignition.avi (around 5mb)

It'll just keep doing what it was doing, except start if it weren't plugged in, even if it were only -1 out.


Enough of that senseless rambling...
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Old 01-20-2005, 10:50 PM   #52
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Well if the block is warm then the oil is not as thick so the starter can spin the engine easier which means it doesn't pull as many amps so the battery voltage does not drop so far and there is more power to the ignition. If I were somewhere requiring a block heater, I would think about a battery warmer also. But I'm not.
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Old 01-20-2005, 11:09 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by padgett
Well if the block is warm then the oil is not as thick so the starter can spin the engine easier which means it doesn't pull as many amps so the battery voltage does not drop so far and there is more power to the ignition. If I were somewhere requiring a block heater, I would think about a battery warmer also. But I'm not.
Ah-ha! That makes sense, and answers the question I was trying to ask. I'm pretty confident the new parts is going to fix this. Even in the video, I think thats excessive cranking for 1 1/2 hours on the block heater and only -10C temps. It does alot better when it'* cooler out. Now to wait for the parts and see what happens!
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Old 01-22-2005, 06:02 PM   #54
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How much did you pay, if I may ask?

Also watched the video, and it sounds like you stayed on the starter for a bit long! It pained me to hear it.
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Old 01-22-2005, 06:57 PM   #55
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I know! I hate staying on the starter that long, but it'* gotta be done to start it. It pains me as well, and I want to stop that. It says in the manual not to exceed 15 seconds, and I didn't come close to that thankfully. And nor do I want to.

It only gets that bad when it'* a little warmer and moist out. Today it started quicker, but it was sputtery going. Though, the car has never ever stalled on me after it has been started.

I'm hoping to see good results, but if my plan fails, fuel pressure would be the next thing to look at?

And I paid about $50. They are decent mileage parts, and the person said he would replace them if there was a problem. Also shipping to Canada is a little pricier. :(
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Old 01-22-2005, 07:11 PM   #56
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Actually, what I was referring to was how long you stayed on the starter after the engine had come to life. You can hear the starter still engaged to the running engine and it makes me cringe.

And yeah, fuel pressure would be the next thing to look at if this doesn't take care of it. I've got a gauge now, but it'* been too darn cold out to motivate myself to actually take some readings. I'll be sure to post results when I get to it though.

A fuel pressure gauge will run $36-$40, depending on the store, but they can be had cheaper on ebay if you're patient.
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Old 01-22-2005, 07:33 PM   #57
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Yea, now I know what you mean now. It sort of a bad habit of mine. Back during the fall it would do that when it was raining out, except it had sounding like it had started, when really it was still sputtering. I would let off and it would stop. I don't do that often, not to sure why I did there. *Slaps self on wrist*
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Old 01-31-2005, 06:17 PM   #58
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Alrighty, I got my Delco ignition module, packs, and bracket today. I have all of tomorrow off, so operation make bonne start good in wet weather commences tomorrow.

Two questions so I'm prepared for tomorrow:

Firing Order:

The magnavox is (below) if I am correct.

4 1
2 5
6 3

The white numbers on the Delco are:

6
3
2
5
4
1

Now, will the wires correspond, or will they be different on the Delco packs? If they are different, what white number matches to what wire from the magnavox?

Also, if I do not get new spark plugs tomorrow, do they need to be regapped to 0.60" or can I just leave them alone? If I do get new plugs, I should gap them to 0.60" correct?

Thanks guys! I'll let you guys know how it goes!
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Old 01-31-2005, 07:04 PM   #59
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The Magnavox Ignition'* firing order is as followed.

3 6
5 2
1 4

The Delco'* firing order is as followed [you had this right].

6
3
2
5
4
1

The plug routing is simple.. I forgot it though. I think it went something like Front cylinder bank, rear, front, rear, front. Shortest, shortest, middle, middle, furthest, furthest. Don't quote me on that.. but it was something like that.

If you take out, buy new, or do anything that involves removing the spark plugs, REGAP THEM! No matter what. Just cheap insurance. If you purchase new ones [stock heatrange] it will be .060" [I highly doubt you want .60" ]. If you have one heat range colder plugs, it would be .055" gap. You won't need anything colder than stock.. so just keep the stock heatrange. You will want to confirm their gap, no matter what. Like I said, cheap insurance.


-justin
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Old 01-31-2005, 08:27 PM   #60
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Ahh...thanks for the correction, I must have been looking at the diagram the wrong way

So, say #6 on the Mag. would go to the white #6 on the Delco? I'm just wondering because of this on the first page.

Quote:
Oh, and Padgett is right about the nice white numbers on the stock units. If you get coils from anything but a 3800, your numbers might be wrong. Mine are all right, except that my "1" and "4" are reversed (both are on the same coil, in the wrong locations). It still works just fine, of course. Just go by what your haynes manual (or whatever) tells you about what wire goes where, not the coils themselves. And don't let other people install new wires on your car.

Or, if you're picky, scrape/sand/dremel off the old numbers, and carefully paint the right numbers on.
ICM is from a 3800 (obviously) but I'm not entirly sure about the coils...
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