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1987-1991 Parley with regards to your 1987 to 1991 Bonneville, Olds 88 or Buick Le Sabre Please use General Chat for non-mechanical issues, and Performance and Brainstorming for improvements.

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Old 06-27-2005, 10:51 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by opensourceguy
Hmm.. i'm a complete idiot.. Really big freakin' idiot.

Nowhere does it say 100ft lbs. Haynes or FSM. FSM doesn't even give a final reading. Just like what you said. Haynes doesn't give a damn thing either. Wow, I really have no clue where I got 100ft lbs from. Well, that very well could have been what my problem was.


-justin
Thats why I always make sure i have the manaul with the torque specs right in front of me as I'm doing it so I can't mess up on the specs. Proper torque is essential, especially on the heads! I think that was basically your whole problem was just the torque. I also think I would drive it normal and let it break in for at least 100 miles before getting on it too hard. You probably should go longer, but with no boost and everything put together properly and torqued properly, 100 miles should be sufficient to not cause any problems.

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This is where experience comes into play. This I have [just about] none of. And this is why you don't see teen veteran mechanics. They are all apart of the 'B-Team,' sadly
I am not a veteran mechanic by any means, and I don't have a LOT of experience, but I know enough not to make most of the mistakes you made with yours. Being 17 and a licensed mechanic (unforunately only in Engine repair and automotive electrical systems right now, I was in a bad mood the day I took the tests and failed the Engine performance test by 1 question ) I can tell you that you don't learn everything hands on. You learn from watching others, reading manuals, and looking up proper procedures for things. But hey, you're trying, you deserve props for that.

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Old 06-27-2005, 12:06 PM   #52
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Lakeville mentions reading the manual cover to cover for the procedure you are about to perform. I also like to know it inside out before beginning and then you have someone else...a friend there to help. This way if you are about to do something really stupid and they are following you with the book ....what if they read something you missed?

Saves time and effort. Plus it'* nice to have a friend on hand and you both learn.

You have ambition and drive, it'* a good thing....now we just need to get some of the typical teen out of you.
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Old 06-27-2005, 01:49 PM   #53
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Shawn, you couldn't have hit it on the money any more than you did...

I am no mechainc either...

My good friend is a Shadetree... works on everything... Its amazing how much you can learn just by simply being there...

We have ripped many diffrent engines apart, everything from Quad 4'* to Acura 3.2'* to 3800'* all the way to ford and chevy....

My friend has a wealth of knowledge and I am glad to have had the chance to learn from him... He also taught me to have a little patience when problems arise, and if they get to be too much just move on to something else and come back to it later...

For everything we don't know shuch as timming, we go to the library and look it up to make sure we get it right the first time.... Most of the time we go to the machine shop for torque specs, they throw the book open and write it all down for us.... He'* well known there...LMAO

I have seen a guy crush all of the intake valves on his 2.3 quad 4 because he didn't know how to set the timming... Destroyed a good head( well pretty much new )... The timming is actually easy to set...

I don't know everything by any means, but I sure have learned a lot by simple being there and getting my hands dirty from time to time...

One thing I love tho, is building or rebuilding engines.... Tis fun...

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Old 06-27-2005, 06:36 PM   #54
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So, Justin...

Whats the next step here?

Going to have the heads milled and Maganafluxed for cracks? If not milled try to have the Maganafluxed to make sure they are not cracked......

Do you have the heads off the car yet?

If you do what do the head gaskets look like? And are there any tale tale signs of the head gasket/* being blown between cylinders?

If you have the heads off and were burning coolant look for the clean piston, this will give you a good idea of where to look for the leak...

So whats the plan?

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Old 06-27-2005, 09:27 PM   #55
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Haven't done much yet. Just pulled the headers, valve covers, and ICM+Coils. I'm going to try to get a friend to help me [she'* not all that great of a mechanic, but she wants to learn, and this is a good experience, since she has to do the head gaskets on her car before she can drive it {3.8L ford}.

I really have no clue how I mixed all that crap up. I really have no clue. I feel so damn retarded because I totally screwed up the torquing.

Also, I will be sure to do the proper break-in procedure. Don't need to **** around with this again.

I am going to get the heads magnafluxed for sure, possibly milled if I can afford it.


-justin
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Old 06-27-2005, 10:45 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by opensourceguy
Haven't done much yet. Just pulled the headers, valve covers, and ICM+Coils. I'm going to try to get a friend to help me [she'* not all that great of a mechanic, but she wants to learn, and this is a good experience, since she has to do the head gaskets on her car before she can drive it {3.8L ford}.

I really have no clue how I mixed all that crap up. I really have no clue. I feel so damn retarded because I totally screwed up the torquing.

Also, I will be sure to do the proper break-in procedure. Don't need to f*** around with this again.

I am going to get the heads magnafluxed for sure, possibly milled if I can afford it.


-justin
Yes this will help her with her head gaskets... But on a ford 3.8 with alluminum heads, the head gasket problems are pretty common with age milage... Happens to most of them sooner or later... And out of curiousity, what kind of ford is this 3.8 in?

On the heads, I do want you to have them checked at least... That way you can be sure they aren't cracked in any manner...

If the heads are true or pretty close to it, I forget what the tollerance is for runout on the heads, but if its a bare minimum or you discove you have no warp at all, then you will most likely be able to skip the shaving process alltogether... But at the same time a resurfacing can't hurt either...

Are you going to get the felpro head gaskets or a GM set again?

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Old 06-27-2005, 11:50 PM   #57
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Yeah, I know it is. I told her she'll be blowing them every 10,000 miles, and she said the car was on it'* 3rd set, at 120 or 130k. It'* been pretty spread out though.. like she said 40k, 60k, then 110k or so. But now that she just got her license, part of her step to getting the car, is doing the work herself.. and although there are going to be like 7 of her friends [including me] working on it.. it'* going to be like a big group project. It'* on a Tarus, btw. I have never popped the hood on the car, but I am going to assume the car is going to be a whole different animal than working on my 3800.

I will have them checked, for sure. No questions asked. Even if they do check out, I think I may spring for the shaving. I know it won't really increase power much, if at all, but at least I have a completely clean surface on the heads.

As far as the Acetone goes, I have some of that, but uh.. it'* industrial grade, not lab grade. So it doesn't evaporate cleanly.. but I'm not pouring ounces all over the heads.. so is that alright? Or would Isopropyl work better? Possibly Naptha [I have lab grade of it]. I'll do the evaporation test again on the Acetone, and see how bad it was. Last time I did it, it wasn't that bad, and that was with about 1oz of product.

You know, I have yet to see anyone, BUT me use gm overhaul gasket set. I'm afraid that may have played a role too, because I have no clue how long that **** has been sitting on a shelf collecting dust. Plus it'* only like $50 for the Fel-Pros, versus like $80 for the GMs.


-justin
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Old 06-28-2005, 12:39 AM   #58
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Ha have fun with her 3.8 justin. Totally different ballpark, you'll hate that car with such extreme passion when you're done you won't ever want to see it again. Of course don't listen to me, find out for yourself. Lol. Good luck with your own headaches in the mean time.
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Old 06-28-2005, 12:51 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by opensourceguy
You know, I have yet to see anyone, BUT me use gm overhaul gasket set. I'm afraid that may have played a role too, because I have no clue how long that ***^ has been sitting on a shelf collecting dust. Plus it'* only like $50 for the Fel-Pros, versus like $80 for the GMs.


-justin
I always use GM gaskets for everything. There may be other companies that make better ones, but if I buy GM ones I know the quality should be at least what was on the car when it was new....thats good enough for me. I wouldn't complain about $80 either. With my wholesale price just my head gaskets were $50. Then the LIM gaskets, plenum gaskets, exhaust manifold gaskets (those were ~$15 each), and other misc stuff. Then head bolts were around $100 or so for all 16.

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Old 06-28-2005, 10:49 AM   #60
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However, how many people here have had good luck with the Fel-Pros? How many people have had bad luck with the GM gaskets [other than stock]? I can't find anyone who has used GM Gaskets, yet everyone who used the Fel-Pros was good to go. Right? Am I right? Or am I crazy like with the 100ft lb head-bolt torquing?

Alec: Yeah, I know I will hate it. But this girl, she'* pretty cute... 'member Tara, yeah, it'* her car . She'* got her dad'* Jeep for the time being, but she goes through like 3 tanks of gas a week.

Also, Alec what about that sealant stuff.. anyone else used that, and is it like silicone based or something? I always thought that stuff would pit the heads..


-justin
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