bad timing?? - GM Forum - Buick, Cadillac, Chev, Olds, GMC & Pontiac chat


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Old 07-05-2003, 02:43 PM   #1
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Default bad timing??

i have a 91 bonnie se na 3800. when i start it it only runs for a few seconds, if i hit the gas it back fires and dies really fast. i cant keep it running. my friend thinks that it is bad timing but we are noy shure. i replaced the plugs wires and coil pack on 7/3/03, didnt help at all.
please help
thanks
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Old 07-05-2003, 02:45 PM   #2
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Are you throwing any codes? ie Service Engine Soon light on?
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Old 07-05-2003, 11:15 PM   #3
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i have no c/e codes. and yes it dies right a way when i hit the gas. it also runs crappy for the first few seconds.
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Old 07-05-2003, 11:37 PM   #4
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Is it a constant problem? Does your car run fine after accelerating? Does your SES light work? Have you had a scan done?

Sorry for the questions but it sounds mysteriously like a code 41 Cam postioning problem.
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Old 07-06-2003, 12:15 AM   #5
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nope the car dosent run i've had her for two weeks and only drove her for one. lol ihave already replaced the harmonic ballancer and crank sensor (due to bad rubber)ses light?? what is that? i do rember when it first broke down i pulled a code 58 out of the computer but that deals with anti theft device but only fixed when the computer is replaced. we did suspect the computer or the timing but now we are stumped.oh i also havn't had her scanned already paid for the tow to my buddies junk yard (the perfect place to fix a broken car).thank you for your help thus far!!!
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Old 07-06-2003, 12:31 AM   #6
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The SES light is the bright orange light on the dash, the Service Engine Soon indicator, mine was on for so long it gave me a sun tan. Good luck with bringin the car in, hopefully its nothing to major
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Old 07-06-2003, 02:28 AM   #7
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Suspect you may have just answered your own question, if the crank sensor is not installed properly and aligned with the balancer, the balancer windows will strike the magnets and may fail one of the timing elements.

Someone who knows what to look for can tell with the balancer on but it comes off a 3800 so easy (have popped off with a breaker bar from top at curb) I would look - are supposed to be three magnets sticking up from sensor.
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Old 07-06-2003, 07:44 PM   #8
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yes!! it was the computer my friend didn't have a computer for bonnie so i went and bought a new one and she ran. THANK YOU ALL FOR THE HELP!!
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Old 07-06-2003, 07:49 PM   #9
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Possible ECM failure - on start everything is done by the ESC (module under the coilpack), it just tells the ECM to rattle the injectors (and this does not need to be accurate but the spark signal does). At some low rpm (400, 500, I forget) the ECM is supposed to take over from the ESC so that transition could be where you are dying.

This early in the cycle, about the only failure that will set a code is if the cam magnet (interrupter) falls off (E041) and it will still start. BTW to repair the factory says the timing cover must come off. Not a bad idea if the timing chain is getting loose but application of a grinder to remove some plastic and a full drying period for some JB weld & the fix only requires removing one bolt.

Almost any 1228253 or 16141470 computer should work but I would try with your original PROM first. If have access to a yard you might want to swap the ESC also but my rule of thumb is to always check what else you just fixed first.

On these computer cars it is important to know the transition points such as closed loop operation on a "C" 3800 from cold generally happens when the coolant temperature crosses 146F. For me this is about a mile and a half from my house. If you have a bad (but not failed fcompletely) O2 sensor, this is when it will act up.
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Old 07-06-2003, 07:55 PM   #10
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ECM takes over spark control at 400 rpm
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