89 Lesabre (STARTED) revs high - GM Forum - Buick, Cadillac, Chev, Olds, GMC & Pontiac chat


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Old 03-11-2005, 07:20 PM   #1
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Default 89 Lesabre (STARTED) revs high

Been three days and new parts and still won't fire.
Ran great, dropped the car off at the shop to get a new passenger side axle put in. Shop guy said when he went to pull the car in the shop it kept stalling on him. Got the car in the shop, axle installed, and when he went to pull it out it wouldn't fire.
We pushed it out of the shop, I scanned for codes (got 13 & 44 -both refer to o2). Then I turned the key and the motor fire up with little persuasion. One problem - the engine idled high, and there was virtually no throttle response. Drove the car home 5 blocks, and shut it off. The next day I put a new o2 sensor in, checked the plugs (looked good), and it still wouldn't start. Just cranks and cranks. Car has a full tank of gas.
Today I pulled the old Magnavox ignition out and installed a 1999 L67 igniton/coil pack assembly. Still just cranks and cranks.
What is going on? I pushed the bleeder valve on the fuel rail and there is fuel pressure.
Last thing I can think of is the ecm.
What are your thoughts?
I need this car running in the morning as I have two appointments and the car I was borrowing from my brother will not be available.
Thanks in advance,
Martin
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Old 03-11-2005, 07:38 PM   #2
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First thought is a pushed back or spread pin in the wiring harness where it connects to the ignition module.

Second thought is a bad IGN module to ECM connection (doesn't do any good to have pressure in the fuel rail if the injectors are not pulsing).

This is why one of my first tests is to pour about an ounce of gas directly into the manifold through one of the vaccuum connections on top and hold the throttle open a bit.

(Do not try in your living room, YMMV, Caveat y'all, & notary sojack, this can be dangerous)

If it fires then, runs a moment, and stops then the problem is fuel delivery and we do a different series of tests involving trouble lights on an injector.

Second possibility is that the fluid under pressure may not be gas (with a low tank this time of year, condensation is a possibility.)

Just tossing some possibilities out, sounds like you have tried the normal stuff. BTW a $3 spark light that goes in series with one of the plug wires will tell you if there is spark.
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Old 03-11-2005, 08:35 PM   #3
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Ok, hooked the jumpers up to moms Park Avenue and let it charge for 5 minutes, shut off the Park Avenue (to spare the life of the alternator in the Park), disconnected the hose from the filter to TB and sprayed starting fluid in the TB.
The car started like it never had a problem, except the high idle.
Why is it idling high. I'm estimating idle speed of 3-3500 rpms. I'm letting the car run until it warms up to see if it idles down when warm.
I am getting no codes for the MAF or TPS -which are the only 2 electronics that would cause this.
I checked and the gas pedal is not caught on anything.
I tried pulling the armature that connects the throttle cable to the TB and it is as far back as it will go.
What are the odds of the throttle cable being frayed somewhere between the gas pedal and TB?

Oh, yeah, and the Lesabres alternator is now making a ticking/knocking sound. At least there is a known good alternator in the trunk -might just get a 140 amp from a 1992-1993 L67 car since I'm gonna be running 2 amps.
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Old 03-11-2005, 08:52 PM   #4
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Well, after some speculation I decided to check connections. With the car running I grabbed the MAF connector and disconnected it -the car died immediately. I reconnected the MAF, and started the car again. It idles only slightly above normal (maybe 1000-1100 rpms), but now the CE light is on. I guessing the MAF had a poor connection, but not enough to set the CE light until I disconnected it.
Going back out now to scan.
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Old 03-12-2005, 10:41 AM   #5
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Do you have a tach? First thing to always check with our cars, is if the tach moves when cranking. That way you know the ICM works, the ECU works, and basically the whole ignition. Fuel is another story, but yeah.

The high idle is probably attributed to the fact the car maybe hasn't had enough time to re-learn the IAC settings and such.


-justin
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Old 03-12-2005, 11:33 AM   #6
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Are you sure the throttle plates are closing fully ? Leaks there can make the idle wonky. Is the IAC clean ? Have also seen the coolant temp sensor fail and make the ECM "think" it is really cold which jacks the idle up but think the limit there is around 1500 rpm.

If everything else is done then you need to take a sensor "snapshot" when the idle is that high (would take an IAC command above 100 to go over 3000 rpm, if close to zero, the ECM knows there is a problem).

Once had an 84 Fiero do that, wound up fastening a metal plate over the IAC opening to limit the amount of air it could pass when cold. Idled fine when warmed up.
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Old 03-12-2005, 04:19 PM   #7
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Well, I scanned for codes and got 21 -TPS. I am pulling one off the parts car and hope to have it cured this afternoon. I am also putting the 16" Park Avenue wheels and a 140 amp alternator.
Found two more problems -the drivers axle knocks on slow sharp corners, and a motor mount is out -when accelerating the steering wheel gets ****-eyed, and when I ease off the gas if I don't adjust the steering wheel the car will start turning, and it also lifts the right side of the car up during acceleration.

Thanks for the help all.
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Old 03-19-2005, 07:36 PM   #8
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Interesting. I am getting an occasional code 22 (also TPS) and occasionally when I stop I'll find the idle up at 1250 or so. All sensor parameters are nomal but IAC is at 70 counts instead of the 35 or so for a 700 rpm idle. I suspect the TPS failure is putting the computer into some backup mode and the high idle is being commanded.

So far I have seen the TPS value drop to zero while driving but have not been able to get it to happen with the hood up even by pulling on wires so do not know if the failure is in the 5v supply or the sense line or the sensor and will need to instrument better to find out.
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Old 03-20-2005, 01:28 PM   #9
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How'* your cruise working? I have trouble with the cruise dropping off on level and downhill roads. It'* like it bogs and it won't kick back in with the controls, but if you step on the gas it'll kick back in and accellerate back up to the set speed.
Also, I find that if I let off the gas for about 2-3 seconds the SES light comes on, but once I step on the gas again it goes off.
I put a new (used, but known to be good) TPS on Tuesday, but I think I just might need to loosen the screws and turn the TPS a little and retighten the screws. I'm gonna do this in a little bit here and will let you know what happens.
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