New to the forum so forgive me if this question has been asked and answered. I tried to search it but couldn't find anything.

I own a 2023 2500 and I am trying to find out what the difference is in the 3500. So far the only thing I could find out is there is one more leaf in the rear springs.
Does anyone know if the brakes are bigger, axle ratio is different, bigger frame, etc...

I have called GM customer service line and they could not put me in touch with anyone who could answer these questions. They told me they do not have a department for that and to try a GMC Dealership. I tried multiple Dealerships (sales, parts & service) and no one had answers for me. I am currently trying to contact the plant in Michigan to see if anyone there could help but so far no luck.

I am mainly going to be towing a fifth wheel with the truck and one of my concerns is the pin or vertical weight I will be putting on the truck.

Thank you

Sorry in my OP I did not mention that I'm trying to compare the 2500 SRW to 3500 SRW.

Okay, you have a 2023 GMC 2500, and from your profile it is a Duramax, right?

Cab style?

4x2 or 4x4?

Long bed or standard bed?

What are you trying to tow (year/make/model)?

Gross weight?

Pin weight?

Have you taken it to a scale to verify these numbers?

Yes Duramax CC 4WD SB

My payload in the 2500 is 3110. The campers pin weight is listed in the brochure at 2350 lbs. but I got the VIN # off of it and called the manufacturer and it really is 2470 lbs. On the camper manufacturers forum this particular models pin weight loaded up for camping is anywhere between 2800-3200 lbs depending upon extras like W/D, generator, extra batteries for solar, etc… so I know my 2500 does not have the payload if I’m understanding how pin (vertical) weight works. So many people say so many different things. But the consensus on the GD forum is the camper needs a 1 ton truck to tow.

The camper is a 24’ GD Solitude

I have the same exact truck lined up except it would be a 24’ 3500 SRW. Just wondering what the difference is besides the extra leaf that makes the payload increase. Bigger brakes, frame, rear axle, etc …

I know a DRW would be ideal but the truck is going to be my wife’* everyday truck so that’* not going to work.

Thanks again.

This is always a fun conversation. I wish GM (and the others as well) would just give a list of what is different between 2500 and 3500, like an alternate parts list. I know they won't ever do that though . . . because folks would go shopping and then complain about GM'* profit margins. Here'* the interesting thing: Your truck has two possible GVWR'* possible, and they make a significant difference in cargo capacity. Could you:

- post your VIN sticker from the driver'* door?
- tell us what size tires you have on it?
- tell us what trim package you have (especially if it is High-Country or not)?

The VIN sticker will tell us the GVWR, and will also tell us the GAWRs and the GCVWR. You're going to be close on weights so this is important for our math.

In the meantime: The brakes are the same between the 2500 and 3500SRW. I believe the springs are a little higher-rate (harder) on a 3500, but I can only back that up with the fact that the 3500 is a couple of inches taller. The 3500 also has an overload spring. If I were in your shoes, I'd go ahead and get the same overload springs added to yours no matter what else we come up with here.

Ok this is why I think the 2500 would not be enough truckas is and please tell me if I'm not correct in my thinking or I'm figuring out this pin weight wrong.

If my payload is 3110 lbs. and the campers pin weight comes in at the minimum loaded up 2800 lbs.
3110 (payload)
- 2800 (camper pin weight)
= 310
- 300 (passengers and that would only be driver and 1 passenger)
= 10
- 250 (hitch weight if I went with something like a B & W Companion w/ slider)
= - 240 (already over and that'* without adding any cargo to the truck, no passengers in back seat and the camper coming in at the minimum end of the range @2800)

Again, please let me know if I'm doing this wrong because I have been getting conflicting info.

Camper Specs
UVW 12,100
GVWR 15,000

I attached the stickers from the truck.
Thanks for all the help.

GMC 2500HD Sierra CC 4WD SB Denali (TK20743)

Actually, this pretty much solves it without doing any other math:



2679
-2800
= -121
-250 pound hitch
= -371

But yeah your math is along the right lines.

Both ways look like too much trailer for that truck'* ratings.

This answered the rest of my questions:



You have the 11,300lb GVWR and 20" rims.

I kitbashed the relevant lines from the brochure and did the math:



The pin weight on the towing sticker is what I'll go off of here, and I'll assume you get all of that extra payload on the pin, even though you probably don't: -371+622=251

Is the extra 251 pounds of capacity going to be enough or is it just going to put you at a little bit higher margin.

. . . or if we go by GVWR and payload:

4,185
-2,800 dry/empty pin weight
=1,385
-300 passengers
=1,085
-250 hitch
=835

Interesting number here, the 835. A gallon of water weighs 8.34 pounds, so you could have almost exactly 100 gallons of water aboard and be at your limit.

Getting back on track:

835
-208 for 25g water
=627
-300 for two friends or family that you bring along that happen to weigh the same as you and your original passenger
=327
-200 for 50 pounds of stuff per person (usual checked-luggage weight limit on the airlines, so this is really a low number)
=127
-at least 128 for tools, blocks, ramps, etc.
=Less than zero
No bicycles/kayaks/fishing gear/etc.
No food/drinks
No bedding
No toys for the kids/grandkids/etc.
No dog
Etc.

. . . and this math is on the 3500SRW

There might be some hope:

1. Weigh the pickup at a Cat scale, front and rear axle separate.
2. Subtract these weights from GAWR Front and GAWR Rear respectively, these are your payload/cargo/passengers/pets/snacks/sodas/etc. capacity remaining.
3. Get a true weight on the trailer
4. Get a true pin weight on the trailer
5. Split the payload/cargo/passengers/pets/snacks/sodas/etc. weight evenly between the GAWR Front and Rear cargo weights that you got in (2) above
6. Subtract the pin weight from what'* left of the GAWR Rear cargo weight from (5) above
7. Now add the other stuff you need in the trailer. If you're really clever you'll get exactly half of that stuff'* weight over the pin and the other half over the axles. Subtract this from what'* left of the GAWR Rear in 6 above.
8. Is what is left over acceptable? Will it still be acceptable in three years when the tires have a bunch of wear and weather on them, and now you've collected some extra stuff in the trailer?

Some will say "It'll do it, just don't drive crazy, yada yada." To me, that'* not good advice to give when asked for advice . . . while knowing full well that only you will have to deal with any consequences.

Personally, I think you're in dually territory with this trailer unless you're going to enforce severe discipline on yourself and everyone else to keep the trailer and pickup bed as empty as possible. There'* an extra 1,477 pounds of payload capacity when you go to a dually. Maybe a smaller trailer is in order?

One thing I wasn't sure about in your calculation'* is:
- you listed "2,800 dry/empty pin weight"
From the GD forum all the pin weights for this model I looked at were weighed on CAT scales with a loaded camper ready to go camping. Most of them actually told you what they had in for extras (W/D, Onan Generator, Extra Lithium Batteries, Tool Boxes, Dogs, Cats, Mother-in-laws, etc...) and they also told you how long the trip was going to be. Trips ranged from 30 days to 90 days. How much fresh water they were carrying which actually can offset pin weight because of where the tank is located someone was saying (not sure how true that is).

I'm not sure if you realized that or not because then you added:
" -200 for 50 pounds of stuff per person (usual checked-luggage weight limit on the airlines, so this is really a low number)
=127
-at least 128 for tools, blocks, ramps, etc.
=Less than zero
No bicycles/kayaks/fishing gear/etc.
No food/drinks
No bedding
No toys for the kids/grandkids/etc.
No dog
Etc."
From what I could tell in the survey where they listed all the pin weights (2800-3200), all that stuff should be include as they were packed up ready to hit the road.

Anyway, I was also thinking about going with a different hitch.
Trying to find out if the Reese Goose Box might be an option for me. I don't know to much about it except for what I watched on you tube.
If I went that route I would take off the Moyride hitch that comes on the camper weighing ~150 lbs. and replace it with the Goose Box weighing ~170 lbs.
So I would be adding 20 lbs. there but would lose the 250 lb. B&W hitch in the bed of the truck.
Not sure if that'* a good idea or not. Actually not sure if that even makes any sense.
If you have any thoughts I would appreciate any feedback.
Just trying to get as much information so I could make an informed decision when the time comes.

I really appreciate you taking the time replying to me and all the information that you have provided.
Thanks again.

You're right, I got the numbers swapped around. You listed the enpty pin weight as 2,470 in Post #4, so:

. . . or if we go by GVWR and payload:

4,185
-2,470 dry/empty pin weight
=1,715
-300 passengers
=1,415
-250 hitch
=1,165
-208 for 25g water
=957
-300 for two friends or family that you bring along that happen to weigh the same as you and your original passenger
=657
-200 for 50 pounds of stuff per person (usual checked-luggage weight limit on the airlines, so this is really a low number)
=457
-at least 128 for tools, blocks, ramps, etc.
=329 at most
No bicycles/kayaks/fishing gear/etc.
No food/drinks
No bedding
No toys for the kids/grandkids/etc.
No dog
Etc.

. . . and this math is on the 3500SRW.

Your truck, on the other hand:

3,110
-2,470 dry/empty pin weight
=640
-300 passengers
=340
-250 hitch
=90
-208 for 25g water
= -118
-300 for two friends or family that you bring along that happen to weigh the same as you and your original passenger
= -418
-200 for 50 pounds of stuff per person (usual checked-luggage weight limit on the airlines, so this is really a low number)
= -875
-at least 128 for tools, blocks, ramps, etc.
= -1,204 at most
No bicycles/kayaks/fishing gear/etc.
No food/drinks
No bedding
No toys for the kids/grandkids/etc.
No dog
Etc.

You'd be waaaaAAaaaaAaAaaay overweight in your current vehicle. If you distribute everything except passengers exactly evenly front/back in the trailer such that the tongue weight was unaffected, you'd only have 90 pounds of margin, or from your pickup'* rear tires' perspective you'd have 1.4% margin, and this is if the 2,470 is accurate, and if you leave passengers 3 and 4 home.

Regarding this:

I wouldn't put too much stock in this. Maybe as a rough estimate or trivia, but nothing more. Pin weight is heavily (no pun intended) dependent on balance. Things I can't tell from the survey:

- How was each respondent'* trailer loaded front/back with everything listed?
- What was each respondent'* tongue weight before loading anything?
- What results did they get in terms of driving/braking/tire-life/etc. performance on truck and trailer?
- Where did they get these numbers? Certified scale? Guessing? On-board scale? Certified scale empty then guessing after loading?

A person could look at this survey'* responses, load 1,000 pounds on the back bumper, and end up with a pin weight of 1,970 and wonder why the rig is so difficult to control . . . or 1,000 pounds over the pin and wonder why they have blowouts all the time.

Overall, with the numbers where they are here, a 3500SRW and some very meticulous weighing and loading seems your best compromise. Before you go about buying, here'* what you need to weigh:
- Pickup, no cargo, no driver or passengers, nothing extra in the storage nooks/cup holders/glove box, full fuel tank(*). Weigh the front and rear axles independently. Subtract these from each GAWR. This provides your remaining capacity per axle. The GAWRs add up to more than the GVWR. The GVWR is your overall limit. Don't exceed any of these and you're good on loading your pickup.
- Trailer pin weight from a scale, not from a brochure, not from the manufacturer, from a scale. Not from lowering the legs. That is not the pin weight. Either a tripod under the pin, fully supporting the pin, on its own section of a scale, or weigh a pickup, re-weigh the pickup with the trailer hitched on, then subtract the loaded weight from the empty weight. The trailer'* axles can't be involved in this weight, they stay off the scale or on a separate pad on the scale.
- Trailer axle weight from a scale. Again not from brochure/manufacturar/etc. Also not while the legs are down. When the front legs of a fifth-wheel are supporting the front of the trailer, they take some of the weight off of the axles thanks to all of the weight hanging forward of the legs. This needs to be while the pin is supporting the front of the trailer.

Once you have these, you can know how to load etc. Then go back and weigh again to see how it came out. If you can't easily weigh with passengers, then at least you'll know what kind of margin you have for passengers in the truck.

Personally, I like to have at least about 10% margin (between actual weight and maximum weight) on every tire in the assembly. When you're at the limit, there'* little tolerance for damage, leaks, wear, age, weather, speed, etc.