What pulley size is the right size?????? - GM Forum - Buick, Cadillac, Chev, Olds, GMC & Pontiac chat


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Old 03-20-2003, 08:01 PM   #1
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Default What pulley size is the right size??????

1992-1995 Supercharged 3800 cars utilizes two (2) different pulley sizes. On the 1992-1993 it is 2.5mm and on the 1994-1995 it is 2.8mm. Many may ask why is that When GM introduced the 3800 Series 1 engine in late 1991 they utilized the Eaton M62 supercharger. The engine produced 205 horsepower with 9-10 pounds of peek boost. In 1994 GM continued with the M62 but with substantially larger mass air, throttle body and supercharger inlet opening. the size off all 3 openings were increased 12 mm. In the world of performance 12 mm is ENORMOUS (HUGE). However bigger is not always better, more on that another time The outlet of the supercharger remained the same. With the new configuration in 1994 the horsepower is rated at 215 and the cars typically produced 8-9 pounds of peak boost.

Interesting huh? Why did the 1992-1993 produce higher boost but have a lower horsepower rating The other components remained pretty much unchanged between the 2 cars. They did have to change the ecm because of the larger volume of air going in I WILL LEAVE THIS OPEN FOR DISCUSSION AT THIS POINT

Now on to the pulley size. Is the Eaton M62 "flow optimized" This one I will answer now. Only in as much as the components you are using have remained the same. Now what does that mean It means that many MANY factors affect the size of pulley you can use on your supercharger. Some but not all are as follows;
Open Air Intake
Cold Air Intake
Intercooler System
Phenolic spacers
Coolant Plug (Closes off coolent flow into your throttle body)
Exhaust System
Porting Of The Supercharger or Throttle Body
Porting Of The Heads
etc,etc
ALL OF THESE CAN EFFECT THE OPERATING TEMPERATURE OF YOUR SUPERCHARGER

Ok now think about this. Which stock supercharger do you think runs cooler the 1992-1993 or 1994-1995 This one is pretty easy, it is the 1994-1995. Ok now you are thinking, so the 1994-1995 runs cooler AND it uses a larger pulley. Now combine your newfound knowledge and start thinking about what I have told you. What size pulley do you think you can use on your 1994-1995 car, or your 1992-1993 car, or your 1996-2003 M90 powered car?

Now when someone tells you that the smallest pulley you can put on a 1992-1993 is a 2.3mm and on a 1994-1995 is a 2.5mm and on a 1996-2003 is a 3.4"mm, NOW YOU KNOW BETTER

Once you have started to modify your car, your supercharger IS NO LONGER FLOW OPTIMIZED. Everything you are now doing is custom and the change to one performance part effects another. do one change at a time and measure the performance impact. And seat of the pants feel is not a good measurement.

Bigger IS NOT always better
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Old 03-20-2003, 09:05 PM   #2
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Default Re: What pulley size is the right size??????

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Peters
1992-1995 Supercharged 3800 cars utilizes two (2) different pulley sizes. On the 1992-1993 it is 2.5mm and on the 1994-1995 it is 2.8mm. Many may ask why is that When GM introduced the 3800 Series 1 engine in late 1991 they utilized the Eaton M62 supercharger. The engine produced 205 horsepower with 9-10 pounds of peek boost. In 1994 GM continued with the M62 but with substantially larger mass air, throttle body and supercharger inlet opening. the size off all 3 openings were increased 12 mm. In the world of performance 12 mm is ENORMOUS (HUGE). However bigger is not always better, more on that another time The outlet of the supercharger remained the same. With the new configuration in 1994 the horsepower is rated at 215 and the cars typically produced 8-9 pounds of peak boost.

Interesting huh? Why did the 1992-1993 produce higher boost but have a lower horsepower rating The other components remained pretty much unchanged between the 2 cars. They did have to change the ecm because of the larger volume of air going in I WILL LEAVE THIS OPEN FOR DISCUSSION AT THIS POINT

Now on to the pulley size. Is the Eaton M62 "flow optimized" This one I will answer now. Only in as much as the components you are using have remained the same. Now what does that mean It means that many MANY factors affect the size of pulley you can use on your supercharger. Some but not all are as follows;
Open Air Intake
Cold Air Intake
Intercooler System
Phenolic spacers
Coolant Plug (Closes off coolent flow into your throttle body)
Exhaust System
Porting Of The Supercharger or Throttle Body
Porting Of The Heads
etc,etc
ALL OF THESE CAN EFFECT THE OPERATING TEMPERATURE OF YOUR SUPERCHARGER

Ok now think about this. Which stock supercharger do you think runs cooler the 1992-1993 or 1994-1995 This one is pretty easy, it is the 1994-1995. Ok now you are thinking, so the 1994-1995 runs cooler AND it uses a larger pulley. Now combine your newfound knowledge and start thinking about what I have told you. What size pulley do you think you can use on your 1994-1995 car, or your 1992-1993 car, or your 1996-2003 M90 powered car?

Now when someone tells you that the smallest pulley you can put on a 1992-1993 is a 2.3mm and on a 1994-1995 is a 2.5mm and on a 1996-2003 is a 3.4"mm, NOW YOU KNOW BETTER

Once you have started to modify your car, your supercharger IS NO LONGER FLOW OPTIMIZED. Everything you are now doing is custom and the change to one performance part effects another. do one change at a time and measure the performance impact. And seat of the pants feel is not a good measurement.

Bigger IS NOT always better
So ...in your opinion..is a 2.2" pulley too small for a '93 ssei...
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Old 03-20-2003, 09:19 PM   #3
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Default Re: What pulley size is the right size??????

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Peters
1992-1995 Supercharged 3800 cars utilizes two (2) different pulley sizes. On the 1992-1993 it is 2.5mm and on the 1994-1995 it is 2.8mm. Many may ask why is that When GM introduced the 3800 Series 1 engine in late 1991 they utilized the Eaton M62 supercharger. The engine produced 205 horsepower with 9-10 pounds of peek boost. In 1994 GM continued with the M62 but with substantially larger mass air, throttle body and supercharger inlet opening. the size off all 3 openings were increased 12 mm. In the world of performance 12 mm is ENORMOUS (HUGE). However bigger is not always better, more on that another time The outlet of the supercharger remained the same. With the new configuration in 1994 the horsepower is rated at 215 and the cars typically produced 8-9 pounds of peak boost.

Interesting huh? Why did the 1992-1993 produce higher boost but have a lower horsepower rating The other components remained pretty much unchanged between the 2 cars. They did have to change the ecm because of the larger volume of air going in I WILL LEAVE THIS OPEN FOR DISCUSSION AT THIS POINT

Now on to the pulley size. Is the Eaton M62 "flow optimized" This one I will answer now. Only in as much as the components you are using have remained the same. Now what does that mean It means that many MANY factors affect the size of pulley you can use on your supercharger. Some but not all are as follows;
Open Air Intake
Cold Air Intake
Intercooler System
Phenolic spacers
Coolant Plug (Closes off coolent flow into your throttle body)
Exhaust System
Porting Of The Supercharger or Throttle Body
Porting Of The Heads
etc,etc
ALL OF THESE CAN EFFECT THE OPERATING TEMPERATURE OF YOUR SUPERCHARGER

Ok now think about this. Which stock supercharger do you think runs cooler the 1992-1993 or 1994-1995 This one is pretty easy, it is the 1994-1995. Ok now you are thinking, so the 1994-1995 runs cooler AND it uses a larger pulley. Now combine your newfound knowledge and start thinking about what I have told you. What size pulley do you think you can use on your 1994-1995 car, or your 1992-1993 car, or your 1996-2003 M90 powered car?

Now when someone tells you that the smallest pulley you can put on a 1992-1993 is a 2.3mm and on a 1994-1995 is a 2.5mm and on a 1996-2003 is a 3.4"mm, NOW YOU KNOW BETTER

Once you have started to modify your car, your supercharger IS NO LONGER FLOW OPTIMIZED. Everything you are now doing is custom and the change to one performance part effects another. do one change at a time and measure the performance impact. And seat of the pants feel is not a good measurement.

Bigger IS NOT always better
I am thinking that you ment in. when you said mm
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Old 03-20-2003, 10:08 PM   #4
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Joe Perker, or should I say Mark Peters? How are you doing today. I would hope that you have had a good experience with Floz since you are the owner. Seems that Joe Perker and Mark Peters have the same IP address as well.

pcp02767828pcs.glst3401.nj.comcast.net / 68.46.134.94

Unfortunately for you now we have your IP address and can track your whereabouts.


.... weird I thought Floz was there too? Don't you just love the internet? I don't suggest you try posting again since we now know your IP.

Thank you from the Bonneville Club team,

Have a great day!
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Old 03-20-2003, 11:04 PM   #5
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Not only do we not reccommend your products, we also don't appreciate misinformation. For your future dealings with any customers (which won't come from here) the horsepower of the 94/95 SSEi or SC SE, SLE, or SSE is 225hp, not 215 as you stated.

One of the reasons the 94/95 M62 runs cooler than the 92/93 is BECAUSE of the pulley size. The lower operating rpm'* of the 94/95 results in less heat. You put that 2.5" pulley on that same supercharger, and it will produce the same heat. Friction is something you just can't get away from, and the person who figures out how to will be a very rich man indeed.

I'd also like to comment on your 'porting' of the SC. During our investigation of your product quality problems and customer service failings, I spoke directly with several people. This list was extensive and included: other 'aftermarket' Eaton SC vendors, the GM of Magnusson Products, and 2 Eaton Engineers. All of them had some pretty interesting thoughts on porting the Eaton SC'*, and in fact ALL stated that porting the Eaton SC has little or no effect on performance, and in fact can HURT performance. It is not a recommended practice.

In addition, I warned one of our members of the problems he would encounter with your product when trying to upgrade to the 94/95 Eaton and 94/95 TB on a 92/93 car. It turns out that I was correct, while at the same time you assured him there would be no problem. I now know of 2 other people that had this particular problem besides him. I also know of a customer of yours who had aluminum shavings fall out of the outlet port of one of your 'ported' units when he opened the box.

Incomplete polishing, incorrect parts, outlandish hp claims, and on and on. Then we have a customer who purchased an M90 unit from you, and his nightmare is an order of magnitude worse than anything else I've stated.

Your refusal to provide a written warranty, and the little games you're playing when you PROVIDED the smaller pulley that 'voided' your non-existent warranty are unbelievable.

Every member here is well aware of the saga around these problems, and were some time before you popped in here. In the interest of preserving the proper atmosphere, please do not involve yourself in Forced Induction topics on this site. You are welcome to hang out and learn something if you wish, but we will not tolerate any effort to gain customers from our ranks. We value the money our members spend on products, and we demand the highest quality.

If you ARE that Mark Peters, please adjust your profile and signature to reflect your actual location rather than hiding behind a false identity. This is proof that you think you have something to hide, and subversion won't be tolerated.

If you AREN'T that Mark Peters (of Floz), welcome to the forum!

For the rest of our members, the other Alias that this subversive little fellow is using can be found here at the following link. Please note the content of his topics and his attempt to boost his own business by acting as a customer of floz. Your esteemed Administrators have the ability to track the IP address of every post on this site. Every INDIVIDUAL IP address that each member posts EACH POST from.

This is really slimy and pitiful.

Here'* the link:
http://www.bonnevilleclub.com/forum/...hor=Joe+Perker
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Old 03-21-2003, 01:28 AM   #6
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Jeffrey, you have any thoughts on this? You got burned the worst. Here'* a real chance for you!
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Old 03-21-2003, 02:47 PM   #7
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its only a php board there are ways to fake ips and make it log others...any linux users tinker with the mod_proxy command? however though i doubt many people would do this or even attempt it.
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Old 03-21-2003, 02:53 PM   #8
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This guy is too desperate to be anything other than stupid. He apparently had no idea that we could track IP'*. The Admins here have some pretty neat tools at our fingertips. Seems to have paid off bigtime here, eh?

In the immortalized words of the butler on Mr. Deeds....."sneaky sneaky".
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Old 03-21-2003, 03:07 PM   #9
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hehe well im not saying im not glad you guys caught him...i use this sit for all the info i need and i guess you can say i blind trust your judgement. i was just stating it is possible to mask yourself on the net.....however its unlikily a guy like him even has hte knowledge to do so.
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Old 03-21-2003, 07:40 PM   #10
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great job guys,
just so everyone knows, he talks out of his butt about things he doesnt know. and mark, i have all my certs and docs. to prove what i know , do you? lmao

also everyone, if you have a floz sc, tell him you want your warr. in writing. i did and then he tells my i voided my warr by doing what he told me to do.
this is why i filed a complaint with the BBB against him. also , if they see that he is in business and doesnt have a permit, omg. cuffs time lol
ill post and let everyone know what the BBB does .

DONT EVEN BUY A STAMP OFF OF HIM. I WAS SOOOO ASHAMED ABOUT THE TREATMENT I GOT , I REMOVED THE FLOZ DECAL ON MY SC.
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