cause then he will not be able top post in it. Plus he has been back since but has not posted in here, but did post on that manual tyranny post.

just let it go

i agree with joe, let him go

So is it about proof or faith. It degrades the reputation of this club as a whole, and no I'm not just referring to the guys over at CGP yapping about the club, but you can't ignore that they're right when they talk about the club although it doesn't apply to us as a whole. Does that make sense? I love that whenever someone has a problem with their car 10 people jump right on trying to find answers and will look up and scan anything out of their books so they can help, thats great. But on the other hand how could you sit back and laugh at the ricers putting stickers and huge exhaust on their car thinking they have 1000hp now when you have a variant of a ricer right here and you're actually defending him to the extent that you'll actually ban people who really do have performance done on their car just for pointing it out. I remember seeing a few ebay sales of a bonneville that had options not possible on that year and messups on the photos and we all laughed at him and I even wrote to him myself to tell him to stop. But let him have been a member and what would we have done? Said "No, its a custom option he installed" ?? This club could never be taken seriously if our own admins defend a blatant lie and tell everyone "shut up or be banned". Honestly it makes me think its one of our own admin's creations. Don't question him, he'll run away and hide, just shut up and believe the impossible. I like suspension of disbelief in movies, but not in a car enthusiast club. If he really did spend that much time and money in building it wouldn't he want to share it with other enthusiasts? Why would he have to lie about it? The only thing people have to go on is the word of an admin who will defend it to great lenghts, a HP number that blows away the nearest competition, and a picture (aparently not shown anymore) of a stock bonneville. Its also kind of funny how this no-flame policy actually gets people banned only when they're talking about turtle. Save for a few that act a straight @ss. Oh well, ya know what, I'm flaiming on turtle. I think he's full of crap and I think the worst part is banning people in his defense. I don't know the whole story but I know Jeff got banned and he actually HAS performance parts and was in that area beneficial to the club, I actually HAVE performance parts and I like to believe I'm beneficial in the performance category too, Turtle claims to have performance parts and because its all a big secret contributes nothing to the advance of the club, yet Jeff got banned and someone reading this will probably have their hand on the ban button for me. I dunno, its just kind of messed up.....

Doc, as always, I appreciate and understand your thoughts, but you have to understand that Jeffrey wasn't banned over Turtle. Jeffrey was banned for HORRIBLE flaming of another member, posting private messages from an Admin, and brutal after brutal post after he was asked to chill for awhile. And he knew better. It just got to him, and he reacted. He was banned by a 3-0 Admin vote, and we normally DON'T vote about bans. His was a special case.

He was given every opportunity to back down and cool off.

Jeffrey was banned for his OWN actions AFTER he resigned. He resigned his position as gearhead, and swore to never post again. That's the way it is. I'm not happy with it, either.

If you want any further information on the subject of Jeffrey, keep it offline or via PM.

Dr Jay, thank you for posting, its not about us defending Turtle, in my opinion all my respect for Turtle is gone, I will no longer defend him , he asked that we not uncover his "performance" capabilities, and we did that out of trust and friendship, well he lied to us, he lied to a friend he lied to his car club and ruined our credibility.

So much for trust.

Jefferey went about voicing his opinion in the wrong way, resigned and then came back to lip off, regardless of who you are, that is bannable. We offered and pleaded and chose not to come back.

Oh well, now to continue on with our lives.

Ahh well thanks for setting the record straight

maybe a new policy shoud be in order...any large power claims need photo documentation. Sound fair to everyone? I personally thing this has been blown out of proportion, but I hope we come out of it with some lessons learned and things in place to keep this from happening again.

Well.. I can understand if someone doesn't want to SHARE ALL THEIR SECRETS.. including car mod.. after all.. cars can be treated like your woman.. you can say you have the hottest woman out there an no one is going to say.. no you don't.. whats her performance part under the bra's and panty's.. lets see some specs and measurements..
:laughing:

However.. claiming HP and torque like that should have some proof.. I would say multiple shots of the dyno sheet.. to show that it's taken from a digi-cam ( one close up to shot the actual spec.. one showing that it's on somebodies table or holding the dyno sheet ) ( a vid of a run either on track or with auto tap would be more then enough evidence.. ( after all we love those vids anyways.. like Bill's S/C whining out :drool: ) The car lookin stock is fine.. after all.. bonnevilles are meant to be sleepers not :bling: :rice: :smileR:

As for Turtle's credibility.. I'll leave that for myself.. I'm just simply wanting to give my 2 cents on different perspective..

P.S. Yes and talking :rice: claims like that does hurt more than just your reputation if you can't warrent it.. it hurts the club's too.

Given this wasnt a hoax, For fuel management I would have went with Megasquirt. When I turbo'd my saturn I tried a few fuel alternatives and when it came down to it I liked megasquirt the best, very customizable and complex but it is worth it when it comes to fine tuning the fuel for a custom turbo setup.