turbo or supercharger? - GM Forum - Buick, Cadillac, Chev, Olds, GMC & Pontiac chat


Performance, Brainstorming & Tuning Talk about modifications, or anything else associated with performance enhancements. Have a new idea for performance/reliability? Post it here. No idea is stupid! (please use Detailing and Appearance for cosmetic ideas)

Reply
 
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 01-27-2008, 07:19 PM   #1
Member
Posts like a V-Tak
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Michigan
Posts: 32
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
ice_qube is on a distinguished road
Default turbo or supercharger?

i was curious...which is best to have? i kno ppl talk about turbo lag...but also they talk about how the supercharger drains power (since its on the belt)...but overall which is best to have?
ice_qube is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2008, 07:26 PM   #2
Senior Member
Certified GM nut
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: burb of detroit. 2 miles north of 8 mile Rd.
Posts: 2,028
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
samueljackson is on a distinguished road
Default

depends on you more than anything. what are you trying to accomplish?
samueljackson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2008, 07:40 PM   #3
Member
Posts like a V-Tak
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Michigan
Posts: 32
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
ice_qube is on a distinguished road
Default

"i wanna go fast!" lol but i dont kno alot about them ...i jus kno they make your car have more HP so you go faster (and what i stated in the first post) , whats the diff? but i when i get up to speed ii want that boost to kick in
ice_qube is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2008, 07:50 PM   #4
Senior Member
Certified GM nut
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: burb of detroit. 2 miles north of 8 mile Rd.
Posts: 2,028
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
samueljackson is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ice_qube
"i wanna go fast!" lol but i dont kno alot about them ...i jus kno they make your car have more HP so you go faster (and what i stated in the first post) , whats the diff? but i when i get up to speed ii want that boost to kick in
you want a cruiser, track car, quick daily driver?

and the cost for a turbo will be drastically higher than a sc, considering you can use all JY parts for a sc setup.


edit** oh and "shake and bake"
samueljackson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2008, 07:54 PM   #5
Senior Member
Posts like a Northstar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Illinois
Posts: 691
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
*B2* is on a distinguished road
Default

A turbo setup can be done fairly cheap as well. IIRC the fuel system will support 13'* with a turbo. My buddy had one all planned out for his '00 Monte SS and it was going to be under $1000 and would run 13'*. Not bad IMO. He copied another setup that was about 3g and then substituted a far less expensive turbo to knock the price down. Would the turbo last, who knows? Also, a turbo would be easier on the tranny.
*B2* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2008, 08:30 PM   #6
Junior Member
Posts like a Ricer Type-R
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
willwren is on a distinguished road
Default

B2, an L27 fuel system will NOT support 13'*. Nowhere near that. My 29lb stock injectors ran out of headroom at WOT around 300 crank HP. His injectors are 21'*.




Bottom line:

If you want off-the-line low end torque, go with a SC.
If you want high-end passing, go with a turbo.

If you want economical and reliable, go with SC.

Either way, you will be in the thousands when you're done.
willwren is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2008, 09:51 PM   #7
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: BonnevilleHell
Posts: 0
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
clm2112 is on a distinguished road
Default Re: turbo or supercharger?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ice_qube
i was curious...which is best to have? i kno ppl talk about turbo lag...but also they talk about how the supercharger drains power (since its on the belt)...but overall which is best to have?
Both have trade-offs. As they say, there is no "free lunch"

Turbos are Superchargers (the correct name is a "turbo-supercharger", but everybody shortens it to just Turbo..even when they have no idea what one is)

The superchargers most associated with the 3800 is a twin screw type supercharger that is belt driven off the motor'* crankshaft. By driving it off the crank, there'* a direct relationship between engine rpm and supercharger rpm. That used to be a big problem on older superchargers, but ours have a twist..a vacuum valve that can dump the excess pressure when it is not needed. This makes the eaton "friendly" in it'* street manners, the blowers output does a good job at matching the motors needs.

Turbo-superchargers by contrast are driven off exhaust gases passing through a turbine, which in turn drives the supercharger. As you might guess..the relation ship is not direct...that'* what people refer to as "lag"...it takes time for the turbine to speed up to a point where the supercharger'* output matches up to the motor'* needs. Same thing happens when the engine slows down..the turbo is still spinning fast and needs to dump the excess pressure (a blow-off valve) So the turbo-superchargers output always lags behind the motors needs. If the motor runs at constant rpm a lot, it'* a pretty good deal. (Hence the extensive use of turbo-superchargers in diesel engines employed on trucks on up through railroad locomotives.)

There are other tyes of superchargers available (centfiugal types made by Paxton, Vortech, ATI, pure roots blowers like the GMC 6-71 and Weiand, reciprocating superchargers used by Volkswagen and others) But for our motors, most people go with the Eaton blowers that were factory installed on the 3800.

So, here'* the trade-offs:

Turbo-superchargers are very efficient when they get spinning, and put less drag on the system than a belt driven supercharger. They also get wicked hot, impart a fair amount of heat into the intake air charge, and have a plumbing system that gets complicated in a hurry. All these things add into the initial cost of a Turbo-supercharger system (custom exhaust manifolds, intake manifolds capable of handling the pressure, oil feed and return lines to lubricate the turbine'* bearings, intercoolers to try and knock down the heat added to the intake air charge) If you tackle all the engineering involved, a turbo supercharger'* output can exceed a belt drive supercharger.

The Eaton supercharger is fairly efficient, and not really complicated to install since it is an OEM system. That'* probably why so many people here stick with it. Bang for buck, it'* one of the best ways to pump up the 3800'* output.

And last...it is advisable to upgrade the rotating assembly of the motor to accomodate the extra power throughput of a forced induction engine.

So you see, pick the poison that matches your tastes and wallet. There'* going to be a bit of work either way you go.
clm2112 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2008, 09:59 PM   #8
Senior Member
Posts like a Northstar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Illinois
Posts: 691
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
*B2* is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
B2, an L27 fuel system will NOT support 13'*. Nowhere near that. My 29lb stock injectors ran out of headroom at WOT around 300 crank HP. His injectors are 21'*.
My bad, I stand corrected. S2'* aren't having problems with it but that doesn't help you.
*B2* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2008, 10:09 PM   #9
Junior Member
Posts like a Ricer Type-R
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
willwren is on a distinguished road
Default

The L27 will need different rods, wrist pins, and pistons at a bare minimum, as well as a strong trans. And the axles.

(and the above-mentioned fuel injectors)


Full swap. PCM, wiring harness, axles, transmission, and engine. By the ime you're done, you'll still have FE1 suspension, and be lacking the other SSEi options you wished you had if you'd sold your SE and bought the car you want.
willwren is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2008, 11:48 PM   #10
Member
Posts like a V-Tak
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Michigan
Posts: 32
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
ice_qube is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by samueljackson

you want a cruiser, track car, quick daily driver?

and the cost for a turbo will be drastically higher than a sc, considering you can use all JY parts for a sc setup.


edit** oh and "shake and bake"

if it makes any sense... when i get to higher speeds/rpm i wanna go faster


so i would have to upgrade my engine (ie piston rods and everything) and tranny if i choose to install either one?
ice_qube is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Turbo L67 Ciera International.....and Turbo L36 S10 Bonneville92V688 Lounge 10 10-05-2007 03:43 PM
what is the difference between a supercharger and a turbo? NERV Forced Induction 2 04-07-2005 10:55 AM
Supercharger AND Turbo? SURE! DrJay Forced Induction 21 11-19-2003 12:28 PM
supercharger or turbo White Lightning Performance, Brainstorming & Tuning 23 07-20-2003 08:08 PM
911 Twin Turbo vs. me w/ only ONE turbo Burgundy_Boat General GM Chat 11 06-28-2003 09:34 PM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:14 AM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.