Torque Management IN ACTION! - Page 2 - GM Forum - Buick, Cadillac, Chev, Olds, GMC & Pontiac chat


Performance, Brainstorming & Tuning Talk about modifications, or anything else associated with performance enhancements. Have a new idea for performance/reliability? Post it here. No idea is stupid! (please use Detailing and Appearance for cosmetic ideas)

Reply
 
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 01-30-2004, 01:00 AM   #11
Senior Member
True Car Nut
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Bloomington-Normal, IL 1997 SE
Posts: 3,734
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
macho_mike21 is on a distinguished road
Default

they are pretty closely related. When mine comes on, its like my 3800 got replaced by a 1.5L
macho_mike21 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2004, 01:51 AM   #12
Senior Member
Certified Car Nut
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 15,928
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
BonneMeMN is on a distinguished road
Default

The traction control is only on when the tires are spinning and can be turned off. The Tq Mgmt is not!
BonneMeMN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2004, 03:40 AM   #13
Senior Member
True Car Nut
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Genoa, Illinois
Posts: 4,013
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Allmachtige is on a distinguished road
Default

Uhhh...yeah thats...um....cool. *whispers to Jason* -- WTF am I looking at?
Allmachtige is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2004, 09:41 AM   #14
Senior Member
Certified GM nut
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Georgia
Posts: 2,095
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
DrJay is on a distinguished road
Default

haha ok I'll explain a little about what you're looking at. GM, in their quest to provide more power with less cost, built engines too powerful for the transmission they're bolted to. The result is Torque Management. The PCM is designed to cut the spark advance (and fuel) just before shifting at redline so the transmission doesn't get the blunt end of all the torque and throw its gears all over the road. If you look at the picture in the second set of lines you'll see a sharp drop in spark advance. If you relate that to the other lines you'll see thats just when it was about to shift. The point is lots of people, including me, were a little clueless on the complete impact of this. I always thought your 1/4mile times would be more affected by the sudden drop in power but as you see it recovers so quickly the losses become almost null.
DrJay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2004, 12:13 PM   #15
Senior Member
Certified Car Nut
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 15,928
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
BonneMeMN is on a distinguished road
Default

Is this on your car? If it is, then it'* just the shift timing, not actual torque management really.

The torque management complaing about here, is on series II L67. They can produce about 330 Ft/lbs peak if they weren't capped. This is a constant manaegement.

Makes ya wonder why our torque curve is so flat doesn't it.
BonneMeMN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2004, 02:27 PM   #16
Senior Member
Certified GM nut
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Georgia
Posts: 2,095
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
DrJay is on a distinguished road
Default

as read on pontiacserver.com:


A little history on the 4T60 used in FWD GM vehicles.

The THM440-T4 was introduced in 1984 on the new GM
full sized luxury vehicles (Oldsmobile Regency 98, Buick
Park Avenue, Cadillac Sedan Deville - remember the logo
on the trunk lid "4-Speed Automatic"). This transmission
was basically the THM125-C with an overdrive added on.
The original 440 was not very reliable. Many changes
were made the first 3 years. Areas that suffered many
failures were torque converters (clutch rivets), 2nd
clutch housings, 4th clutch area, final drive.
When the Cadillac Allante was introduced, the 440
would not handle the torque of the V-8, so a special
version known as the F-7 was developed. It included
special sprockets, heavy duty final drive, special
fourth clutch, etc. A rare but solid transmission if
you can find one.
By 1988 the quality was better, but to make the
440 (now called the 4T60) a world class transmission,
electronic controls were added. The new transmission was
coded F-31 and became known as the 4T60-E. The 4T60-E was
phased in from 1988 to 1990. You can tell by looking at
the bottom oil pan - it will be stamped with "4T60-E".
This transmission has much better reliability. By the
1991 model year, all FWD Overdrive transmissions were
the 4T60-E model.
As a side note, with the introduction of the
Northstar V-8s, a new low volume transmission was
developed for these applications. It is known as the
4T80-E. Very durable but very expensive, about 80%
higher in cost than the 4T60-E. Also 60 pounds
heavier.
With the introduction of the Supercharged 3800,
a few modifications to the 4T60-E were made. The
biggest change is the final drive unit, which is of
heavy duty design.The transmission still can't
handle the full torque of engines such as the SC 3800
and the DOHC 3.4L V-6s at redline during shifts. GM
utilizes Engine Torque Management to maintain
reliability. This consists of controlling engine rpm
and engine torque (through timing and fuel) during
shifts. That is why the SC 3800 and DOHC 3.4L do
not shift at redline at WOT.

For the 1997 model year, GM introduce the 4T65-E.
This transmission is a heavily reworked 4T60-E design
which includes such features as a 258mm torque converter
instead of 245mm, twin chains and special sprockets for
noise, Electronic Line Pressure (ELP) for ECM control
of pump pressure to better regulate shift quality,
revised fourth clutch, revised second clutch housing,
and many other improvements to reliability. The first
applications to receive the 4T65-E will be the
SC 3800 V-6 and the DOHC 3.4L V-6 to minimize the need
for torque management. The phase in will be three
years and will be complete by model year 1999.
The biggest cause of failure of the original
4T60 (440) is heat. [snip of restricted info] Through
control of shift points and torque converter lockup,
tranmission temperature can be controlled. There is
a temperature sensor in the transmission for the ECM
to monitor. This shows the STRONG recommendation
to add and external air/oil transmission cooler
for 4T60 (440) equipped vehicles.
DrJay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2004, 11:18 AM   #17
Senior Member
Posts like a Turbo
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 310
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
94Regal is on a distinguished road
Default

OK......So........

In the end, your saying GM is poor, and screwed us all over by making a POS tranny that cant handle anything. I believe it. You hear about Ford'* engines blowing before there tranny'* go. Why would they do this? Wow, do they just WANT us to dislike them? I sware they ask for it
94Regal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2004, 12:52 PM   #18
Senior Member
Certified Car Nut
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 15,928
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
BonneMeMN is on a distinguished road
Default

The 4t-60e handled pretty much all the power the series I put out, the 4t-65 is worse in many regards. Personally i'd rather have a better engine then a better tranny.
BonneMeMN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2004, 02:02 PM   #19
Senior Member
True Car Nut
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Lakeville, MN
Posts: 4,328
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
fantastic88 is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
The 4t-60e handled pretty much all the power the series I put out
I agree. My car shifts very smooth at WOT and even at the redline. Now as for my Grand Marquis I don't push it past half peddel or else, BANG!, slip!
fantastic88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2004, 02:31 PM   #20
Senior Member
Posts like a Northstar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Mount Vernon, Ohio
Posts: 530
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
con10der is on a distinguished road
Default

Thanks...very informative...
con10der is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Torque management rears it's ugly head again....twice. willwren 2000-2005 8 07-25-2004 01:01 PM
Knock Retard....Fuel Starvation....Torque Management ??? 2000SilverBullet Performance, Brainstorming & Tuning 35 04-10-2004 09:08 PM
4t60-e + L36 - torque management =??? Burgundy_Boat Performance, Brainstorming & Tuning 20 12-29-2003 12:24 PM
PCM Torque Management - Speedguy??? streetracer 2000-2005 11 11-01-2003 11:39 AM
Engine Management programs? Allmachtige General GM Chat 11 10-18-2003 01:41 AM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:09 AM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.