thoughts - GM Forum - Buick, Cadillac, Chev, Olds, GMC & Pontiac chat


Performance, Brainstorming & Tuning Talk about modifications, or anything else associated with performance enhancements. Have a new idea for performance/reliability? Post it here. No idea is stupid! (please use Detailing and Appearance for cosmetic ideas)

Reply
 
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 10-19-2006, 04:50 PM   #1
Senior Member
Posts like a Corvette
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Cheyenne, Wy.
Posts: 1,251
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
gojo83 is on a distinguished road
Default thoughts

I was cruising on another 3800 site that I will not name but there was a guy who had done the zzp m90 to the l36 and well as the story goes he left the BBV open and said it felt stronger even if he wasn't getting boost. That got me to thinking and well if I were to swap the topend for a L67 topend wouldn't that be better for flow even if i don't run the blower to fast. I am just looking for something that would help with power and also mileage up here in the altitudes because the L36 falls on it'* face going over the mountains. Just thinking out loud here any input is appreciated
gojo83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2006, 05:03 PM   #2
Senior Member
True Car Nut
 
toastedoats's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Fitchburg Ma _ToastedRice_
Posts: 6,837
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
toastedoats is on a distinguished road
Default

the L67 heads and intake will flow better than an L36, but i dont know just how much difference that will translate into
toastedoats is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2006, 07:38 PM   #3
Senior Member
Posts like a Supercharger
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 171
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
GTPboy is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
the L67 heads and intake will flow better than an L36
L67 heads are the exact same as L36 heads except the injector boss on the L67.



Quote:
story goes he left the BBV open and said it felt stronger even if he wasn't getting boost
That car sounds VERY familiar , but he'* actually keeping it closed.

-Jeremiah
GTPboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2006, 08:09 PM   #4
Senior Member
Posts like a Northstar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Dimondale, MI
Posts: 549
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
F14CRAZY is on a distinguished road
Default

Aw just install the L67 parts
F14CRAZY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2006, 08:33 PM   #5
Member
Posts like a V-Tak
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 34
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
PURENVY is on a distinguished road
Default

M90'* love the higher compression of the L36'*. AT MIGPC a GP GT with only a ZZP SS M90 kit dyno'd 253WHP and over 300ft/lbs. with a 4.0" pulley!

People who run the ZZP SS M90 kit or have done a L67 top end swap have had GREAT success with it. IIRC someone on here has done the swap to their GP GT.
PURENVY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2006, 09:30 PM   #6
Senior Member
Posts like a Supercharger
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 171
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
GTPboy is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
People who run the ZZP SS M90 kit or have done a L67 top end swap have had GREAT success with it. IIRC someone on here has done the swap to their GP GT.
Yup-Shaun Mayes (DBTK2). [email protected] The top swap will normally produce more power and can be upgraded MUCH easier.
GTPboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2006, 09:51 PM   #7
Member
Posts like a V-Tak
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 34
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
PURENVY is on a distinguished road
Default

IIRC ZZP said that an L36 bottom will make ~ 5% more power then the a L67 bottom. So the more power you make the bigger the WHP #'* will be.
PURENVY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2006, 10:23 PM   #8
Senior Member
Posts like a Supercharger
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 171
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
GTPboy is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
IIRC ZZP said that an L36 bottom will make ~ 5% more power then the a L67 bottom. So the more power you make the bigger the WHP #'* will be.
That is correct, however with the top swap you are actually running everything smoother so to speak. The 1 belt setup is one of the main things that holds the ZZP kit back. With a ZZP kit you start of with a 4.2 pulley, and a top swap with a 3.8. Which one do you think will make more power?

Top swap can run a full size I/C, ZZP can only run SSIC, ect. The ease of the instal is the big plus for ZZP kit since you dont have to pull your heads.
GTPboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2006, 01:42 AM   #9
Senior Member
Posts like a Corvette
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Cheyenne, Wy.
Posts: 1,251
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
gojo83 is on a distinguished road
Default

so if I called ed morad and asked if I could get all that for say 500 and then send my pcm to intense and get reburned and see where I am at there. but would I need a new pulley on the bottom block for the topend to work right
gojo83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2006, 02:30 AM   #10
Senior Member
Posts like a Supercharger
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 171
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
GTPboy is on a distinguished road
Default

It will most likely be a little more than $500 for everything, unless its an extremely high mileage take off. We go thru all our top swaps, cleaning, new */c oil, inspection, new */c coupler, viton valve seals, ect. Here is everything I can remember off the tp of my head:

complete M90
L67 TB (97/98 work very well with the swap, if modified correctly)
L67 Fuel rail
6 L67 Injectors
MAP sensor
MAP plug
BBV plug (sensor should be on the blower)
L67 heads (can be stripped, and use everything of your L36 heads)
L67 Valve covers
Valve cover gaskets
new rocker bolts (maybe)
*/C belt
L67 ICM bracket (97-98 GTs have the correct bracket already)
tensioner w/ pulley (need the nut also, there are only 3 this style on the entire car)
idler puller for ICM bracket
Idler pulley w/ stand off
L67 crank pulley (dampner)
head gaskets
head studs or bolts
bolts for idler stand off (3, the L36 ones are to short and are only there to plug the coolant jackets)
L67 LIM
LIM gasket (alum. one is reccommended)
*/C gasket
*/C gasket O-rings
PCM work

I hope I didnt miss anything! Most ppl. have upwards of $1000 into the top swap when doing themselves. We are currently working on lowering our pricing, and are expecting a $1400 installed pricetag-with NOTHING more to buy (other than more mods). And you don't even have to get dirty .





You could send your PCm to Intense, and Tim King has great knowledge of tuning the L36 block, however sending the PCM to anyone is a bad idea. The L36 is not as tolerant as the L67, and one little "oops", and you'll need to be calling Ed again. Your best on tuning is finding someone local, or drive to Intense. The base file is VERY easy to setup.
L67 engine param. with L36 trans params. You can drive it like that fine for a long while with an AFC to tune fuelng. But again your best bet is to have some tuning/driving/scanning your car before doing any changes.

-Jeremiah
GTPboy is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
I could get this car. whats your thoughts? bonnieman92 Lounge 25 12-20-2003 01:51 AM
Marker, back-up and taillights are possessed! Any thoughts? Nebulas 2000-2005 4 10-13-2003 06:12 PM
Lingering thoughts willwren Lounge 18 10-09-2003 06:25 PM
Interesting supercharger thoughts hairbear21 Forced Induction 2 08-25-2003 06:10 PM
Looking at 99 GP with 122 K tonight .... any thoughts. jhammer22 1992-1999 7 07-18-2003 01:15 AM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:42 AM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.