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Old 10-25-2004, 01:00 PM   #41
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I think anything other than conventional is going to drive the cost through the roof. You need to look at how others are intercooling, and find a cheaper way than that.
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Old 10-25-2004, 08:08 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willwren
Don't rule out commercial heating and AC sources for the heat exchanger. You might have better luck there.
Aha idea of the day....thinking outside the box today Will?
I did contact a guy that fabricates custom intercoolers today, and he want to get all the measurments off of the car (but he'* in indiana so that may be difficult) I may end up sending him my SC to use as a templet to make something, or at least see if he can. I will try looking into the commercial HVAC thing though, as I know someone who used to be in the bizz.
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Old 10-25-2004, 08:25 PM   #43
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Reguarding the two round holes on the supercharger:

From : <tech @ magnusonproducts.com>
One is crankcase vent via PCV and the other is vacuum.
Ed Lauer

Makes sense
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Old 10-25-2004, 08:43 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrJay
Reguarding the two round holes on the supercharger:

From : <tech @ magnusonproducts.com>
One is crankcase vent via PCV and the other is vacuum.
Ed Lauer

Makes sense
thanks for the research man.....I was planning on having the plate machined with holes in it to match with the small holes in the intake...and every other hole to boot, if im gonna do this im gonna do it right, no half azzing for me.
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Old 10-25-2004, 08:54 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matt95ssei
Just a thought, but why not try a stock tranny cooler? thats about the right size to fit under there i would think, maybe a bit of modificiation but who knows.

Also, is it possible to run freon through the lines without them freezing? or does it need to be crazy pressurized for it to be cold? I think water would heat up to fast, liquid nitrogen through the cooling veins would bring down intake temps quite sufficiently hahahaha.. mmmmmmmm i like that idea!
Well the stock tranny coolers are stacked plate design not tube fin design (too restrictive to airflow), plus they are too big (I already had that idea so I measured)

Also I cant imagine that any type of metal would hold up well to having freon gas at like better than 30 below zero and superheated air 200+ degrees going through it at the same time.....have you ever tryed pouring boiling water on your windshield to clean the ice off in the winter......NOT A GOOD IDEA
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Old 10-25-2004, 09:18 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BonEvilSSEi
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrJay
Reguarding the two round holes on the supercharger:

From : <tech @ magnusonproducts.com>
One is crankcase vent via PCV and the other is vacuum.
Ed Lauer

Makes sense
thanks for the research man.....I was planning on having the plate machined with holes in it to match with the small holes in the intake...and every other hole to boot, if im gonna do this im gonna do it right, no half azzing for me.
Hey np, swatimearfour. So you're planning on doing something much like Intense? A spacer design? What do you think about something along these lines (Don't laugh at my Paint skillz )



Of course it would require modification of the plenum BUT it would save the costs of having to machine a much larger piece and other frustrations that may arise from the spacer design. Think about it, you can pull the plenum, take it to a good shop (with specs in hand) and *ZIP* they have two precisely cut lines for the tubes to run out. They would then have two rubber seals (much like how the intake seals to the block on front/rear now, only smaller) that holds it all together. The rubber seals would sit flush with the manifold to ensure a clean seal.

If you have all your spacing right what would this cost? 20min at a good shop, a core, pump, heat exchanger, and tank. I get the feeling that'll be much less than the $1,000+ Intense charges for their spacer design. Hey ya gotta pay for convenience.

See any immediate problems with that thought?
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Old 10-25-2004, 09:48 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrJay
Quote:
Originally Posted by BonEvilSSEi
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrJay
Reguarding the two round holes on the supercharger:

From : <tech @ magnusonproducts.com>
One is crankcase vent via PCV and the other is vacuum.
Ed Lauer

Makes sense
thanks for the research man.....I was planning on having the plate machined with holes in it to match with the small holes in the intake...and every other hole to boot, if im gonna do this im gonna do it right, no half azzing for me.
Hey np, swatimearfour. So you're planning on doing something much like Intense? A spacer design? What do you think about something along these lines (Don't laugh at my Paint skillz )



Of course it would require modification of the plenum BUT it would save the costs of having to machine a much larger piece and other frustrations that may arise from the spacer design. Think about it, you can pull the plenum, take it to a good shop (with specs in hand) and *ZIP* they have two precisely cut lines for the tubes to run out. They would then have two rubber seals (much like how the intake seals to the block on front/rear now, only smaller) that holds it all together. The rubber seals would sit flush with the manifold to ensure a clean seal.

If you have all your spacing right what would this cost? 20min at a good shop, a core, pump, heat exchanger, and tank. I get the feeling that'll be much less than the $1,000+ Intense charges for their spacer design. Hey ya gotta pay for convenience.

See any immediate problems with that thought?
This is the EXACT reason I joined Bonnevilleclub.com, I would have never thought of this and this is an excellent idea....the only thing I can even think of that may be a problem is the fins in the heat exchanger directing the airflow down insead of out, but the airs still gonna go where it needs to....so here are the new measurements 4 1/4" long by 3 8/10" wide by 1" thick.....if I can find this then heck this would subtract like at least 3 hours fab time, and therefore big time bucks from what this would cost, hey maby these things could go for like 300 bucks. I could even get a bunch of lower intake cores and have them machined so I could sell these suckers cheap....lets see how this goes.
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Old 10-25-2004, 10:17 PM   #48
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There'* one problem. Conventional intercooler plates have the added benefit of thermally isolating the SC from the lower intake manifold. That'* actually a bigger issue than you might think. The lower surface of the SC gets quite hot, and that heat will still transfer to the air before it enters the heat exchanger. If done this way, it won't be as efficient as the traditional stacked plate design of IC, and could be somewhat self-defeating. I'd test this idea on the bench before spending money on it.

In addition, make sure (if you actually go this way) that your seals can withstand boost pressure.

Thermal analysis of the M62 and M90 Superchargers have shown the two hottest surfaces of the SC in operation are the inside of the inlet neck and the very bottom surface where it mates to the lower intake manifold.
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Old 10-26-2004, 03:44 AM   #49
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That makes sense but I'm not sure how effective 1-2" of aluminum is at 'thermally isolating' the supercharger. I'm thinking most of the heat in the intake (being transferred to the sc) is because of the hot air. If you reduce the temperature of the air going into the plenum, you can reduce the heat of the plenum, thus reducing the heat that is transferred back to the supercharger. It may not be the *BEST* design but if done correctly it would, at least initially, seem the more cost effective way to achieve the desired result. Thoughts?
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Old 10-26-2004, 07:18 AM   #50
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Quote:
straitor_clark (2:12:42 AM): Hmm... maybe its worth using the spacer.
krayz20 (2:13:18 AM): yes, but i'm not so sure aluminum would be my first choice
krayz20 (2:13:29 AM): especially lacking coolant
straitor_clark (2:13:39 AM): Plastic.
straitor_clark (2:13:44 AM): or ceramic.
krayz20 (2:13:51 AM): yea more along those lines...
krayz20 (2:14:08 AM): but a dead piece of aluminum I would guess will conduct more heat towards the supercharger
krayz20 (2:14:23 AM): thought?
straitor_clark (2:15:02 AM): yup.
straitor_clark (2:15:13 AM): just like the LIM keeps all the heat it does.
straitor_clark (2:15:42 AM): there'* the expanded cooling surface of the exposed area of the spacer, but how much could that help?
krayz20 (2:16:16 AM): mmmmm.....not enough?
straitor_clark (2:17:18 AM): lol
krayz20 (2:17:50 AM): I dunno, while it could benefit from the area I think the heat will eventually soak through it.
straitor_clark (2:18:12 AM): yup.
straitor_clark (2:19:00 AM): if you use heat isolation barriers and have the tanks of the IC installed to cool the plate also, I can see the benfiet, Otherwise, no.
krayz20 (2:19:45 AM): yeah
krayz20 (2:21:07 AM): thrasher recorded outlet temps of 270F
krayz20 (2:21:16 AM): er "in excess of"
krayz20 (2:22:47 AM): I dunno..I can see spacing it with aluminum of being SOME kind of benefit but I can't imagine enough to say a lesser design is useless
krayz20 (2:23:44 AM): lol
straitor_clark (2:23:49 AM): heh
krayz20 (2:23:50 AM): Because of its ability to conduct heat, aluminum is used in heat transfer applications
krayz20 (2:23:55 AM): hmmmmm
straitor_clark (2:24:00 AM): yup.
krayz20 (2:24:11 AM): seems counterproductive to the desired outcome
krayz20 (2:24:52 AM): or am i reading that wrong
krayz20 (2:24:53 AM): heh
krayz20 (2:25:55 AM): hmm
krayz20 (2:25:56 AM): http://www.geocities.com/l67_maniac/SCSpacer.jpg
straitor_clark (2:26:33 AM): it doesn't have coolant holes.
krayz20 (2:27:51 AM): i'm not familiar with the m90 layout. it has 4 small holes in it. maybe 1 pcv, 1 vacuum, 2 coolant? I'm not sure what i'm looking at there though
straitor_clark (2:28:29 AM): No.
straitor_clark (2:28:42 AM): to the right of the bypass port.
straitor_clark (2:28:49 AM): there'* only three holes.
straitor_clark (2:28:57 AM): if it had coolant it would have 5.
krayz20 (2:30:47 AM): hmm
straitor_clark (2:31:02 AM): I think.
straitor_clark (2:31:15 AM): The coolant ports tend to be over by the TB.
straitor_clark (2:31:31 AM): unless gm/eaton got wise and are now cooling the SC body...
krayz20 (2:33:05 AM): hmm
krayz20 (2:33:16 AM): really not sure
krayz20 (2:33:37 AM): i can't find a pic of the underside of an m90
straitor_clark (2:34:50 AM): lol
krayz20 (2:36:28 AM): ok this is interesting
krayz20 (2:38:43 AM): Allen Engineering makes the intercooler in the Magnacharger (Magnusons parent) kit. Allen Enginnering chose the same design I laid out, not a spacer.
krayz20 (2:39:23 AM): or something like that
straitor_clark (2:39:32 AM): hmm...
straitor_clark (2:39:36 AM): interesting.
straitor_clark (2:39:37 AM): Post.
krayz20 (2:40:03 AM): http://proficientperformance.com/ima...ford_truck.jpg
straitor_clark (2:41:37 AM): o0o0o... interesting.
straitor_clark (2:41:44 AM): but that LIM looks to be composite.
krayz20 (2:42:09 AM): also http://www.timskelton.com/valkyrie/t..._eaton_kit.gif
krayz20 (2:43:47 AM): hah they make a mechanical intercooler pump that looks like it bolts on
krayz20 (2:45:34 AM): why quiet?
straitor_clark (2:46:24 AM): That design is the same...
straitor_clark (2:46:31 AM): I'm having *heck* loading pics.
krayz20 (2:46:38 AM): same as what
straitor_clark (2:47:49 AM): as the other, and your idea.
krayz20 (2:48:03 AM): oh, yeah
krayz20 (2:49:24 AM): i dunno...i guess each has their benefit but I can't imagine the spacer being more cost effective
straitor_clark (2:49:48 AM): yeah, slotting the LIM seems cheaper.
straitor_clark (2:49:57 AM): but will it affect *airflow* badly?
straitor_clark (2:50:13 AM): max performance/low cost
krayz20 (2:51:00 AM): shouldn't affect airflow any more than a spacer...not sure what you're getting at
straitor_clark (2:51:55 AM): By the LIM holding the IC won't it reduce height? what'* the depth of the LIM at that point?
krayz20 (2:52:47 AM): oh i see what you're saying...
krayz20 (2:54:07 AM): well airflow is the reason behind a supercharger, above heat. I trust that Allen did their homework and gains were noted
krayz20 (2:55:44 AM): other than that, dunno
Note: it'* 5am my time. DrJay was slightly more mentally refreshed. Anything between *'* was edited to make this postable.
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