Blackbuick, the differences in the PCM'* are extensive. As Shadow points out, the PCM'* aren't even remotely plug/play with each other. ZZP shows no particular interest in the Bonneville, so people 'make do'.

INTENSE is the only aftermarket company to have completely identified all the torque-management, fueling, spark control, and shifting issues, and how they differe from the GP.

They are, in fact, the only company with an off-the-shelf PCM specifically designed for the Bonneville.

Not saying that a GP PCM will work in my Bonneville, however the actual tune for the engine cannot be all that different or at all. It'* not like a 2000 SSEi Bonneville has a better factory tune that a 2000 GP GTP. There may be other differences in the PCM for other stuff that is in the car but the engine, injectors, MAF, ect are the same.

blackbuick1987- reread Willwrens post

its not that the motors are diffrent its that GM programmed the PCMs diffrent because the cars are diffrent sizes and where ment to be used diffrently so they held the Bonnies back a bit in the burning Rubber and maybe gave them just a big more Power because they are a bit heavier.

Notes i dont have a 00+ bonnie nor a SCed one, but just from Reading everything and understanding everything and Seeing intense'* stuff in person, i can say that the Bonnies PCM is way diffrent from a GPs.

erin0525,

Without swapping in any performance parts, and assuming this guy is a really, really good tuner, and assuming he has a wideband O2, he might get you +5% mpg, or +5-10 ft-lbs low-end torque, or possibly up to +3-5 hp (or some combination of lesser mpg/torque/hp improvements), but not much more.

For example, he certainly could change your shift points to prevent lugging up hills, but that'* going to cost mpg, and is not a true increase in power...just an alteration of how the powerband is applied. Or he could lean out your base A/F and accel and WOT enrichments and/or alter your boost settings for economy, but that'* likely to cost power. Or he could do a combination of these things--which will change the way the car behaves--but will net little in the way of economy or power improvement.

Further, unless this guy can give you at least 3 references for */C L67 applications he has done, don't be his guinea pig...unless he'* willing to bond a few thousand bucks for your motor replacement.

Finally, I call BS on anyone getting 25-30hp improvement on any engine through a tune alone (i.e., no added performance parts).

Ultimately, I'd say it isn't worth spedning the dough to tune your stock vehicle...especially given that the 99+ H-bodies are reasonably well-tuned from the factory. If you were to mod significantly, that changes the picture.

blackbuick1987 said:
This is not a friend...this is someone who wants to charge $100.

how bout the more aggressive Torque Management that the H body has compared to the GTP??.....

but i guess that is not the "actuall tune" right

and there are more differences..........
What about Abuse mode??
what about the addition of the Performance shift function???
what about Diff. Scoring Mode??
What about Suoperchanger Torque Management????......
what about that the W bodies sometimes need a security re lean and the H body does not??

if you have actually looked at BIN files side by side you would know that right??? seems that you need to learn a little

oh and BTW ZZP has actually told a Bonneville owner (on this forum) that they DID NOT want his business when trying to buy parts from them. ZZP'* Customer Service SUCKS plain and simple...one of the main reasons why we discourage business with them

if you want to put ZZP parts on YOUR GTP...please do, but DO NOT come on our forum and tell BONNEVILLE owners that there is a better PCM for their Cars....

Well if I actually owned a GTP then I would put ZZP parts on it, however my 2000 SSEi BONNEVILLE will see whatever parts I decide are the best for it, which as I said, have been advised not to go anywhere near Intense by someone who has ALOT of experience with 3800'*. Seeing as how he worked for them I tend to trust his opinion.

And as usual, it'* always advisable to trust a disgruntled former employee over many satisfied customers. It'* the american way.

(slight sarcasm there to make a point)

We wouldn't promote INTENSE if there were issues. We're proud of our record of giving the right advice to the right people at the right time. And ZZP'* track record here hasn't been very good lately. From both the technical and customer service side. There are multiple issues in the last 3 or 4 months.

Well he left on his own accord because he did not care for the way they were handling certain situations, maybe not on the Bonneville side of things, but most definitely on the GP side of the house. Happened a few years ago, but like I said I trust his opinion when it comes to things related to 3800'*.

You are entitled to your opinion based on something one person said based on something that apparently happened (according to him) a few years ago.

We base our experiences and advice based on our knowledge of quality and customer service (not to mention Performance) over 5 years of doing business with INTENSE on this site. There'* not ONE disgruntled customer of INTENSE here. Because we don't take much stock in the ZZP/INTENSE feud. We form our own conclusions based on our own personal experiences.

There are other Forums who'* members form their conclusions based on hearsay and other people'* stories. When and If a Vendor has quality or customer service issues, they are barred from promoting their products on our Forum, and our members are clearly warned about doing business with them. A good half-dozen vendors have gone that way here.

INTENSE remains the model that all these vendors are compared to. Year after year.

Threads like this dishearten me. I encourage each person to establish contact with, deal with, purchase from and get a feeling for, each of the vendors before deciding to take sides. I realize people put a lot of trust in friends but as always there are two sides to a story and I can gaurantee that whatever you hear, someone on the other side is saying the complete opposite.

INTENSE has worked hard to restablish credibility that was damaged during the owner split. And no that split wasn't pretty with both sides having a lot of bitter feelings towards each other. I would take anything said by either side about each other with a grain of salt.

That being said nobody dyno'* or dynotune'* more S2/S3 3800'* than INTENSE. Nobody does more Bonneville PCM'* than INTENSE and nobody makes more power with a S2/S3 3800 than INTENSE, period.