Ran the Caminated2K on Sunday...
 

I didn't beat my PB as I was hoping too to try and stay ahead of rogue.. but I came close and discovered some things..

I went to Lapeer, which after going, I won't be going back.. no burnouts for FWD and just overall crummy track IMO.. but results are results.. I killed a few Mustang GT's though. :)

Old PB run at Norwalk with only a 3.25 and VS Camshaft:
60' - 2.127
330 - 5.978
1/8 - 9.195
mph-76.78
1k - 11.935
1/4 - 14.22
mph - 97.91

Not too shabby in my book for a 4,000lb car.

At lapeer, changes to the car from previous is only SLP headers !cat:

60' - 2.252
330 - n/a
1/8 - 9.360
mph - 79.37 (2.5mph gain!)
1/4 - 14.273
mph - 98.06 (small gain, have 2-3KR at the bottom of third)

My 1/8 trap was lower (worse 60') however I made more power to that point with the higher MPH, in my scans i have no knock at all through the 1/8th, after that I lose about 2-3 degrees of timing towards the end I think accounting for the loss in MPH/ET.

After this run I put DR's on and ran worse, worse 60's and slower MPH / ET's. Grip was horrible, no track prep at all.

At any rate, if Rogue is the second fastest 2K+ SSEi, then I'm on him in third, as I too feel my results do not echo the car's ability :wink:

I may try another track in current trim however the next runs will probably be at norwalk in august with an INTENSE PCM and a 3.0.

Just incase anyone is curious, my shifts were at 5453 out of first, and 5720 out of second *holding it in second gear to 96mph*.. I will drop ET by simply using the powerband of the cam with the new PCM :)

WHEW, long post, look for TWO mid/high 13 second SSEi's before the season is over!

awesome news! That is pretty neat that you can get those times with only two mods...Have you considered a CAI and free flowing muffler?

Rockers are a nono with the cam correct?

Only high ratio rockers. You'll get too much lift.

Nice job! What octane were you running? You get an INTENSE PCM and that will help you a bunch. Did you disconnect your wheel speed sensors in the front before running? If not, tq mgmt was killing you.

Good luck on the quest for 13's....

Thanks for the props guys :)

Rogue, Yes I disconnected the speed sensors for the runs. Car felt great for the 1/8th but did feel a little sluggish on the rest of 1320. Shifting out of first at the stock shift point lands me in second at something like 3800 rpm's, that's a long second gear pull! Can't wait to get it up to around 4600 or so.

Octane was mobil pump 93. On the street I was showing no KR the previous day so I didn't make any changes. My scans at the track showed some getting there, must have been the hot lapping as I started racing right after I got there.

Stock TSTAT as well. I do have a K&N 9" cone, however I run it open, no CAI for it yet.. I haven't gotten around to building one for it. I think I have the power to hit a 13 on a better track with better grip now. However I'm going for further than that with the PCM/3.0. 02's were in the 910 range.

1.7 rockers can be used with the VS, however, I suggest simply getting a larger cam.

Not bad at all, considering all you were up against.

Let's get that PCM in there and you and Todd can have a fun battle at the Nationals in August. It's going to be nice having several SSEi's there...

Scott

yeah, get the fast cars to represent us Bonnies. :D

That's cool Man, you should most definitly be in the 13's with 100octane, some cold air and a PCM. You 2 can have a nice little duel, too bad I won't quite be able to keep up, no cam for me for a while.

Hoping I can make it to Nationals myself.

Scott, I fully intend on getting a PCM through you before Nationals! I look forward to battling back and forth with Todd *all in good fun of course, but it's fun to have some direct competition* :)

I WAS curious however if a 'performance shift' mode can be implimented on the ssei even though there is no dash light. On normal days I LIKE the slow smooth shifts and very 'safe' operation of the transmission. However, sometimes I need the all out wreckless hard shifts, no torque management, high rpm shift points that the PCM can supply... If this is possible to work out, that would be fantastic, if not, no biggie really.

I'll contact you on specifics as the time approaches :)

Thanks TaylorD :) I think not having the KR would have gotten me close for sure. however, I was never a fan of race gas :P I always run my car in as close to street conditions as I can. I'm not into running a setup/time at the track and feeling the power that I can't feel in normal day operations :) but if it comes down to a few hundreths, race as it is! hehe. My 02's are around 905/910. it could use a slight bit more fuel and I'm sure that KR would be virtually nill. I have plans for a CAI in the works. In my previous testing I never really found much of a difference with or without one.. but it's worth a shot and isn't much $$ to build.

Take care and thanks for the replies everyone :)

I agree with you on that, I for one have a very heavy stereo setup in my ssei and lots of dynamat, not to mention and extra yellow top all the way in the back corner of the trunk. Not helping what distrubiton at all, Don't really care, I like to run my car pretty much just like I do anyother day on the street, BUT I will get some 100 in there before every track date, I can feel the power gained and can't deny myself.

Good luck getting into the 13's, I will be there myself some day but not till next year.

The Bonneville is always in performance mode. The PCM does have two sets of tables however and I suppose it MAY be possible to use a switch to kick it into the other calmer table. Its the reverse of the GPs where when they press the button it kicks em into performance mode. For us, it should kick down into neutered mode.

I reread the site and saw that, and I suppose that's cool with me :)

Taylor, I had my dual 12"s with amp in the trunk yet too :P Stock thermostat, everything cept the pulley/cam/headers. Starting to see knock now on the 3.25 at the top so time to drop in a 180.. maybe a 160 :).

Thanks for the info rogue :) Cya at nationals!

do you still have the stock heat range plugs in? a cat/muffler might help too. 160 is too cold for us unless its only at the track, it will set a SES light.

I run a 160 with no problems, i do have the code removed from the pcm

Asume everything is stock on my motor unless I list it:

3.25 pulley
VS camshaft
SLP headers
NO CAT
Autolite 103's at .057 gap
my new $8.36 CAI *open cone for track times*

I had my sub box in the car. Stock TB/TSTAT/SC etc.

You going to beef up your valvetrain when you get the PCM? Longer shifts may give you valve float without stronger springs....

Who told you that Rogue??? :wink:

Yes, I will beef it up. Shifting at 5400 i saw no purpose as of yet, however, they were brand new stock springs that now have about 5,000 miles on them.

Comp 105's are in my future :)

Thanks for the tip on that, I'm suprised even Scott didnt catch it until we talked about it at IDD.

For those who don't know...

I hadvalve float with the 1.9's at about 5900 rpm. Put in the 105's with OR rods and titaniums retainers and it vanished. Now with the rollmaster timing chain my valvetrain should handle up to 7grand easy. I currently shift about 6300-6400 with no problems.

But how much can a stock tranny safley shift at? Man your up to 6400rpms thats got to be a beast now.

caminated2k-what kinda stereo you got? :lol: That's pretty cool that you ran those times with those mods. Whats with the Intense certified installer part of your sig? just curious.

Yea shifting into third at 105 is a rush ;)

Thanks for the compliments :) I was rather happy with it's performance as well. Considering I didn't help it at all by running the stock thermostat and having no CAI :)

Stereo....Nothing special really... I run the stock bose headunit and run an MTX 2150X bridged amplifier into 2 MTX 3000 12" subs. With pushing 14.7 volts according to the information center, it puts out good power and hit. I used to be heavy into that stuff, this sub setup is the only thing I kept.. low end subs, but they have lasted forever and take a beating.

The transmission can handle a 6,000+rpm shift just fine as long as it has good line pressure. I'll be up around 6300 also, but I think I might request 6100 as my cam will be trailing off in power at that point.

The INTENSE installer portion of the sig ... I just moved out to MI, but lived in Wisconsin.. I still go back all the time, but it's saying I am approved by INTENSE to install product, such as Camshafts, Transmissions, Torque Converters, Rockers, anything. I have done 3 L67 swaps into GT's, Installed 9 camshafts... a few in SSEi's ;), tons of rockers, valve springs, etc. I know my way around these cars :) I was bored and didn't want rockers so I tossed a cam in my car... that was it's only modification for a while LOL.

Anyway, hope that answers the questions :)

Be willing to do a tranny swap sometime in the Chicagoland area when mine finally goes?

The stock trani is rated for 6500 rpm max in 1st gear and 6200 rpm in 2nd gear.
I remember reading that on a GM site technical sheet......that I can't find now.

MUhahahahah bu-bye tranny... ;)

Sure, just give me a shout, doesn't take too long to do. :)

Alright, hopefull that call comes later than sooner. I think you and Todd are going to need one before me though.

Heh..heh...that's what we need. A GP.....guinea pig that is... :lol: to run us through the intracacies of a backyard trani swap.

My trani gave me a fright yesterday. I was playing around...as usual...and decided to show my son how the anti lock brakes work to stop the car in panic mode from 60 mph.
They worked like a charm, pulling us to a vibrating stop. Then I went to accelerate away and the trani slipped and then slammed into gear, abruptly squealing the tires. I let off right away and don't think it did any damage but it was a fright at first when I hit the go pedal and nothing happened then.... bang... screech.
Must have been a fluid starvation issue caused by the sudden stop.
Weird trani. :roll:

there is a fluid starvation issue in the 4t65's, fyi.

I've noticed a lot of strange transmission issues after a real hard stop.

As for a back yard trans swap... man, the stories I have :)

I've done Headers right outside my apartment building with a jack and hand tools. A transmission can most certainly be changed. Main tool that makes it easier is cheery picker. It can be done in a day no problems. I've done writeups on doing an L67 swap.. found at none othe than www.l67swap.com... look for the 97+GP instructions. it's pretty much the same process for the SSEi.

:)

you make it sound too easy...

What would it cost to put a L67 and a HD tranny in my car? Parts+labor?

Cam - your link didn't work for me.....bad gateway.

What's the best way to cherry pick the engine and trani now that the factory lifting lugs have been removed :?:

For lift points, either obtain two engine lift brackets from a grand prix or take the water pump off and use the studs from it and run them back in the head and use that as a lift point, for the front, insert a hardened stud into the head, or use a grand prix lift bracket which isn't too hard to find.

Parts/labor to put an L67 / HD trans in your car will run about $2,000 to $4,000 depending on mileage of motor and configuration of modifications done to it before it goes in such as an aftermarket camshaft and valve springs, heads, etc. :) Our labor charge is $800 for swap vehicles and it is completed in one day.

http://www.l67swap.com/howtos2.htm

That's a direct link to the document, it came up for me.... here is the text: **** Sorry if it isn't formatted real well, scope it at the site****

Introduction - 97+ Grand Prix
OF NOTE: Swapping the engines on a 97' year car is harder to do and I do not have expertise in this area nor will I comment on it. Many things need to be changed in addition to the motor. If you have this old of a car I would suggest trading it in.

Ok here we go.

Depending on what you are going to be doing *modifying the engine before it goes in or changing the transmission as well* this list may vary.



thank you BoogieQ for this information




The Parts you will need:
98' - 01' L67 (02's have some minor changes and is not adviseable so I'm told)
98' - 01' 4T65E-HD transmission
Passenger side GTP axle *the length is different due to the DIFF casing*
GTP PCM of same year of car (Perfered DHP for performance shift)
FEMALE GT harness connector for MAP to MALE GTP plug connector (from Caspers Electronics - talk to Justin @ (847) 247-0484
MALE harness plug for Boost Bypass Valve with 3 feet of wire for 13v+ and 3 feet with PCM pin on end that will connect to pin 77 on the CLEAR connector for the PCM from Caspers Electronics - talk to Justin @ (847) 247-0484 ~$30 for both connectors
1 Throttle Body Gasket *easier to pull the Engine/Trans without it on + can clean it.
2 Exhaust manifold gaskets ( Might as well replace them while your there )
5 quarts of oil (10 if installing a camshaft)
2 Gallons of coolant (I recomend doing a flush of the dexcool and running regular green coolant)
12 quarts of transmission fluid (DEXRON III)
20 pack of paper towels
Oil Dry
4 or so Pan Catch Bins for fluids
Supercharger Belt *usually doesn't come with the motor* Score a gatorback from PFYC.COM
1.5-2 ton Engine Hoist. Found at Fleet Farm, Liquidators, Home Depot (may rent one out)
Blankets ( To lay over the fenders )
Zipties to hold calipers to the springs when pulling axles




Tools you must have
36mm Impact Socket for Axle nuts ( found ours at Fleet Farm for $3.99 regular socket, worked fine )
18mm 15mm 14mm deep+regular well sockets
18mm 15mm 14mm open end wrenches
Up to 100ft. lb. torque wrench
Solder gun for harness modifications
Misc sockets/wrenches/drives
One bigass Crow (Crowbar )
Hammer
2-4 Jack Stands
Large Duty Jack that can raise the car ~2 feet off the ground



Phase 1 - Engine Removal
This is what I have in my head right now, I may be missing a few small details but for right now this is pretty close. Most people have most of the tools needed for it already along with jack and jack stands.

INSTALL DAY

Good morning Ladies and Gentleman.. ready to start your swap? Well nail a few lines and lets go!

NOTE: I assume you know your way around a car at least and can figure out how things come appart, if I have to give exact bolt locations and sizes then maybe you shouldn't be doing this!!!

Part 1: pull the hood.
Not hard to do, open it up and get one person on each side. Remove the C clips from the lift supports where it contacts the hood. Then, undo the two bolts on each side while holding the hood. Once done, pull both supports off the nub and lift the hood off.

Part 2: Coolant drain
Go to the auto store (or Fleet Farm) and score a coolant flush kit. You can splice it in on the heater hoses that run into the bracket below the Alternator. Then undo the plug for the radiator on the lower right side of it. Let the coolant drain out. Hook a hose from the house up to the flush kit... let it run with the car running and drain her out.

Part 3: Disconnecting everything
I like to take a sharpie marker and when I pull a plug, write on the male end of the plug what it was. Like MAF, MAP, TPS, etc. Most plugs can only go in the original spot they were in and lay near it's connection so it isn't that hard.

You will need to pull the fuel lines too. Some fuel will come out so have a papertowel handy. Pinch the clips and pull the lines off, not to hard.

Disconnect:



Throttle linkage
TB connectors
MAP/EVAP connectors
Injectors
Plug wires
Brake Booster line
Vac Lines
Alternator connections
Coil pack connector
PCM connector
Down the back of the motor are some sensors, one is the Oil Pressure sensor
Extension for a Knock Sensor
VSS sensor on back of Differential housing
Rear O2 sensor from Ubend and snake the connection back into the engine bay
There are two connectors near the crank pully, one on each side at the top.
Rear 02 sensor on the manifold
Front Knock Sensor
Positive and negative lines to the starter
Grounds for starter and transmission on front of transmission housing
Main transmission connector on top middle of trans
Undo the two bolts holding the shifting linkage line to the transmission and pop the linkage off the nub on the shift control lever
3 more connectors remain for the transmission where the shifting lever is.
remove the two coolant hoses from the block


Part 4: Removing parts



You need to remove the Alternator.
Power steering pump, there are holes in the pully, you have to go through these holes with a deepwell to reach the two bolts that hold it to the block, kinda a pain
remove the tensioner pully, and pull the coilpack/engine mount bracket off.
remove the A/C pump, two bolts in the back and 4 in front
remove the front manifold, crossover, rear manifold and disconnect it from the downpipe
pull out the coolant overflow bottle
you can leave the starter on or take it off, it may get in the way, it's two bolts so I pull it.
undo the two transmission lines and let them drain.
drain the motoroil
pull the transmission dipstick
remove the TB *makes it easier on the pull*


Part 5: Axles/breaks/motormounts
Gettin there!



remove the tire, use your 36mm socket to pull the axle nuts
remove the break caliper and ziptie it to the spring
remove two bolts holding strut to the wheel assembly
remove the driveshaft out of the hub section using some motivation
Now, to get the axle to come out of the transmission, DO NOT REPEATEDLY JUST YANK ON IT

Props to Ed Morad for this one, get a Crow out and position it behind the axle near
the transmission housing to give you some pry force from the trans, then, using a hammer or smaller crow, tap on the housing of the CV joint on the axle, keep doing this while applying a pry pressure to the axle till she just slips on out. Repeat this above process for the other side.

Each side has a motor mount held on by two bolts. On the passenger side go under the car and there are two nuts holding the studs for the lower motor mount to the cradle. Remove those nuts. On the driver side, remove the plastic splash guard in the wheel well and remove the two nuts for the transmission mount.

Part 6: Pull the mofo

GO over the engine bay again, make sure your harness is fully out of the way and that nothing is still connected up. Besure you put your engine lift brackets back on after taking off the manifolds!!!!!!!!
Hook up the chains for your cherry picker to the engine, begin to jack the mofo up. The passenger side will lift first, the engine has a tendency to stay on the transmission mount studs on the driver side, after you have it lifting a bit and it's tilting, go over and coax it off of the transmission studs, it will let go. Slowly lift up being cautious. Watch thebreak booster and most importantly the master cylinder.. the transmission casing will come close to these. It will also get hung up on the A/C lines on the Driverside, help it past them. Having two people guide the engine while one jacks is ideal.

Continue your process until it clears all obsticles and begin raising it above the car till you can scootch it out of there.

Not to hard

Since you most likely purchased an HD trans as well, you will need to mate it up to the new motor. This should be fairly straight forward how to do this but incase it is not, here is how. You want to mount the torque converter to the flex plate using the three bolts that go through it into the three mount points for it. Slide the tranny into the torque converter with the input shaft and keep working it till it's flush with the block. Screw in the 6 mounting bolts that hold it to the block and attach the secondary transmission to block mount by the differential housing. Good to go.

Now, hopefully you have everything done to your L67 like cam and such that you wanted to do so your ready to just lower the L36, remove the chains, hook them to the L67, pump, scootch, and begin to lower it in. Using the same caution as before, let her go down very very slowly, watch the master cylinder and A/C lines. Be sure the TB is off the L67, it helps clearance. Once it is getting close to landing on the mounts, you will need to have someone push the engine from the passengersize while someone in the driverside wheel well guides it onto the transmission mount studs. Once it goes on, continue lowering and go real slow to make sure the Passenger side mount studs line up with the cradle holes, once they do, let it down all the way and have a beer.




Phase 2


Begin the process in reverse now.

Put the nuts on the motor mounts and begin to put everything back on the car. I suggest buttoning up the axles/breaks/struts right away and get it done. Put the Powersteering and A/C pumps back on, exhaust, wiring, trans lines, starter wires, pcm, etc.

Connect up your fuel lines, coolant lines, overflow bottle, put the TB back on and hook up the linkage, shifting linkage, 3 sensors by shift lever on trans. Make sure you have everything buttoned up, belts, connectors, vac lines etc. You should have taken note where it all went either using paper or masking tape on the connectors to know what is what.

Part 7: BBV and MAP sensors
To wire up the Boost Bypass Valve, find the pink wire in the Coil Pack connector, this is the wire you have to splice into, not cut. Follow it up the harness a bit it will get closer to the BBV and spice into it there with the blue whire from your BBV connector. Then run the black wire with the PCM pin to the clear connector on the PCM pin 77.

For the MAP, simply plug the GT male end into the GT femail on your extension, the put the male end into the GTP map sensor on the underside of the back braket by the EGR.

Part 8: fill the fluids, fire it up

You will most likely need about 2 to 3 quarts of trans fluid to replenish it. Put this in, then check it later after it's on flat ground and running for a bit.

Dump in your 4.5 quarts of engine oil and replace the filter

Fill up your coolant system.. should take about 2 gallons. Don't forget to have that plug put back in on the radiator first!! Use discression. After it runs for a while, let it cool and check the level.

Hook up the battery and fire it up, see whatcha got! Provided you took your time and made sure everything was right, you should be golden.

**** I may have forgotten a few things on this writeup, as I remember them I will add them, but this is the bulk of it.. a bit of thinking on your part will find *if anything* what I missed and be able to fix it or figure out how to take it appart/put it back on. ****

you could do it in one day if you knew what you were doing, I bet it would take most of us the good part of a weekend to do.

How much does a L36 and trans go for?